8.
The Discourse to Vacchagotta
417.
Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One;
having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One.
Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side.
Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One -
"What now, Master Gotama, is the world eternal?"
"This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by me -
'The world is eternal'... etc...
"But what, Master Gotama, does the Truth-finder neither exist nor not exist after death?"
"This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by me -
'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"
"What now, Master Gotama, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death'? But what, Master Gotama, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when Master Gotama is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"
"Heterodox wandering ascetics, Vaccha, regard matter as self, or self as possessing matter, or matter as in self, or self as in matter. They regard feeling as self... etc... Perception... etc. Activities... etc. they regard consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. Therefore, when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death' or. But the Truth-finder, Vaccha, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One, does not regard matter as self, nor self as possessing matter, nor matter as in self, nor self as in matter. He does not regard feeling as self... etc... not perception... etc... not activities... etc. he does not regard consciousness as self, nor self as possessing consciousness, nor consciousness as in self, nor self as in consciousness. Therefore, when the Truth-finder is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"
Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta, having risen from his seat, approached the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna - "Now what, dear Moggallāna, is the world eternal?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The world is eternal'... etc... "But what, dear Moggallāna, does the Truth-finder neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"
"What now, dear Moggallāna, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death'? But what, dear Moggallāna, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when the ascetic Gotama is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"
"Heterodox wandering ascetics, Vaccha, regard matter as self, or self as possessing matter, or matter as in self, or self as in matter. They regard feeling as self... etc... Perception... etc. Activities... etc. they regard consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. Therefore, when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death' or. But the Truth-finder, Vaccha, the Worthy One, the Perfectly Enlightened One, does not regard matter as self, nor self as possessing matter, nor matter as in self, nor self as in matter. He does not regard feeling as self... etc... not perception... etc... not activities... etc. he does not regard consciousness as self, nor self as possessing consciousness, nor consciousness as in self, nor self as in consciousness. Therefore, when the Truth-finder is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal,' 'the world is non-eternal,' 'the world is finite,' 'the world is infinite,' 'the soul is the same as the body,' 'the soul is one thing and the body another,' 'the Truth-finder exists after death,' 'the Truth-finder does not exist after death,' 'the Truth-finder both exists and does not exist after death,' 'the Truth-finder neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"
"It is wonderful, my dear Moggallāna, it is marvellous, my dear Moggallāna! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching. Just now, my dear Moggallāna, I approached the ascetic Gotama and asked him about this matter. The ascetic Gotama too explained this matter to me with these very terms, with these very phrases, just as the Venerable Moggallāna. It is wonderful, my dear Moggallāna, it is marvellous, my dear Moggallāna! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching." The eighth.