18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(177) 1.

Discussion on the Human World

802. Should it not be said - "The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world"? Yes. Are there not shrines, parks, monasteries, villages, market towns, cities, countries and provinces where the Buddha dwelt? Yes. If there are shrines, parks, monasteries, villages, market towns, cities, countries and provinces where the Buddha dwelt, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world."

Should it not be said - "The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world"? Yes. Was not the Blessed One born in Lumbinī, fully awakened at the foot of the Bodhi tree, the wheel of the Teaching set in motion by the Blessed One at Bārāṇasī, the life principle relinquished at the Cāpāla shrine, the Blessed One attained final Nibbāna at Kusinārā? Yes. If the Blessed One was born in Lumbinī, etc. the Blessed One attained final Nibbāna at Kusinārā, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world."

Should it not be said - "The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "On one occasion, monks, I was dwelling at Ukkaṭṭhā in the Subhaga Grove at the root of a royal sal tree"; "On one occasion, monks, I was dwelling at Uruvelā at the goatherd's banyan tree, newly fully enlightened"; "On one occasion, monks, I was dwelling at Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove at the Squirrels' Feeding Ground"; "On one occasion, monks, I was dwelling at Sāvatthī in Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's park"; "On one occasion, monks, I was dwelling at Vesālī in the Great Wood in the Pinnacled Hall"! Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, the Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world.

803. Did the Buddha, the Blessed One, stay in the human world? Yes. Is it not that the Blessed One, born in the world, grown in the world, having overcome the world, dwells untainted by the world? Yes. If the Blessed One, born in the world, grown in the world, having overcome the world, dwells untainted by the world, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world."

The discussion on the human world is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(178) 2.

Discussion on Teaching the Dhamma

804. Should it not be said - "The Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One"? Yes. By whom was it taught? It was taught by a created being. Is the created being a conqueror, a Teacher, a Fully Self-Enlightened One, omniscient, all-seeing, lord of the Teaching, one who has the Teaching as refuge? That should not be said. Etc.

Should it not be said - "The Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One"? Yes. By whom was it taught? It was taught by the Venerable Ānanda. Is the Venerable Ānanda a conqueror, a Teacher, a Fully Self-Enlightened One, omniscient, all-seeing, lord of the Teaching, one who has the Teaching as refuge? That should not be said. Etc.

805. Should it not be said - "The Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "I could teach the Teaching in brief, Sāriputta; I could teach the Teaching in detail, Sāriputta; I could teach the Teaching both in brief and in detail, Sāriputta; but those who understand are rare." Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, the Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One.

806. Should it not be said - "The Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "I teach the Teaching having directly known, monks, not without having directly known; I teach the Teaching with a source, monks, not without a source; I teach the Teaching with the wondrous effect of liberation, monks, not without the wondrous effect of liberation; Since I teach the Teaching having directly known, monks, not without having directly known, since I teach the Teaching with a source, not without a source, since I teach the Teaching with the wondrous effect of liberation, not without the wondrous effect of liberation, exhortation is to be done, instruction is to be done; And it is enough for you, monks, for contentment, enough for gladness, enough for pleasure - 'The Blessed One is the Fully Self-Enlightened One, well proclaimed is the Teaching, the Community is practicing well.' And while this explanation was being spoken, the ten-thousand world-system trembled"! Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, the Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One.

The discussion on teaching the Dhamma is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(179) 3.

Discussion on Compassion

807. There is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Yes. There is no friendliness in the Buddha, the Blessed One? That should not be said. Etc. There is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Yes. There is no altruistic joy in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Etc. Equanimity? That should not be said. Etc.

There is friendliness in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Yes. There is compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? That should not be said. Etc. There is altruistic joy in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Etc. Equanimity? Yes. There is compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? That should not be said. Etc.

There is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Yes. Is the Blessed One without compassion? That should not be said. Etc. Is not the Blessed One compassionate, seeking the welfare of the world, having compassion for the world, acting for the benefit of the world? Yes. If the Blessed One is compassionate, seeking the welfare of the world, having compassion for the world, acting for the benefit of the world, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One." Etc.

There is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Yes. Did not the Blessed One attain the great compassion attainment? Yes. If the Blessed One attained the great compassion attainment, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One."

808. There is compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One? Yes. Is the Blessed One with lust? That should not be said. If so, there is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One.

The discussion on compassion is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(180) 4.

Discussion on Types of Odour

809. Does the faeces and urine of the Buddha, the Blessed One, surpass very much other kinds of perfumes? Yes. Does the Blessed One feed on odour? That should not be said. Etc. Does not the Blessed One eat cooked rice and food made with flour? Yes. If the Blessed One eats cooked rice and food made with flour, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "The faeces and urine of the Buddha, the Blessed One, surpasses very much other kinds of perfumes."

Does the faeces and urine of the Buddha, the Blessed One, surpass very much other kinds of perfumes? Yes. Are there any who bathe in, anoint with, rub with the faeces and urine of the Buddha, the Blessed One, set it in order in a box, put it in a casket, spread it out in a market, and with that odour make perfumery? That should not be said. Etc.

The discussion on types of odour is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(181) 5.

Discussion on the Single Path

810. Does one realize the four fruits of asceticism by one noble path? Yes. Of four contacts... etc. Is there a combination of four perceptions? That should not be said. Etc. Does one realize the four fruits of asceticism by one noble path? Yes. By the path of stream-entry? That should not be said. Etc. Once-returner, etc. By the path of non-returning? That should not be said. Etc.

By which path? By the path of arahantship. Does one give up identity view, sceptical doubt, and adherence to moral rules and austerities by the path of arahantship? That should not be said. Etc. Does one give up identity view, sceptical doubt, and adherence to moral rules and austerities by the path of arahantship? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One that the abandoning of the three mental fetters is the fruition of stream-entry? Yes. If it was said by the Blessed One that the abandoning of the three mental fetters is the fruition of stream-entry, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "One gives up identity view, sceptical doubt, and adherence to moral rules and austerities by the path of arahantship."

Does one give up gross sensual lust and gross anger by the path of arahantship? That should not be said. Etc. Does one give up gross sensual lust and gross anger by the path of arahantship? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One that the fruition of once-returning is due to the diminution of sensual lust and anger? Yes. If it was said by the Blessed One that the fruition of once-returning is due to the diminution of sensual lust and anger, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "One gives up gross sensual lust and gross anger by the path of arahantship."

Does one give up subtle sensual lust and subtle anger by the path of arahantship? That should not be said. Etc. Does one give up subtle sensual lust and subtle anger by the path of arahantship? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One that the fruition of non-returning is due to the complete abandoning of sensual lust and anger? Yes. If it was said by the Blessed One that the fruition of non-returning is due to the complete abandoning of sensual lust and anger, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "One gives up subtle sensual lust and subtle anger by the path of arahantship."

811. Should it not be said - "Does one realize the four fruits of asceticism by one noble path?" Yes. Was the path of stream-entry developed by the Blessed One? Yes. Is the Blessed One a stream-enterer? That should not be said. Etc. By the Blessed One the once-returner, etc. Was the path of non-returning developed? Yes. Is the Blessed One a non-returner? That should not be said. Etc.

812. Does the Blessed One realize the four fruits of asceticism by one noble path, while disciples realize the four fruits of asceticism by four noble paths? Yes. Do disciples see what has not been seen by the Buddha, the Blessed One, attain what has not been attained, realize what has not been realized? That should not be said. Etc.

The discussion on the single path is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(182) 6.

Discussion on Transition between Meditative Absorptions

813. Does one pass over from meditative absorption to meditative absorption? Yes. Does one pass over from the first meditative absorption to the third meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc. Does one pass over from meditative absorption to meditative absorption? Yes. Does one pass over from the second meditative absorption to the fourth meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

Does one pass over from the first meditative absorption to the second meditative absorption? Yes. Whatever adverting for the arising of the first meditative absorption, etc. aspiration, is that same adverting for the arising of the second meditative absorption, etc. aspiration? That should not be said. Etc.

One passes over from the first meditative absorption to the second meditative absorption, should it not be said - "Whatever adverting for the arising of the first meditative absorption, etc. aspiration, is that same adverting for the arising of the second meditative absorption, etc. aspiration"? Yes. Does the second meditative absorption arise for one not adverting, etc. arise for one not directing? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that the second meditative absorption arises for one adverting, etc. arises for one directing? Yes. If the second meditative absorption arises for one adverting, etc. arises for one directing, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "One passes over from the first meditative absorption to the second meditative absorption." Etc.

Does one pass over from the first meditative absorption to the second meditative absorption? Yes. Does the first meditative absorption arise for one attending to the danger in sensual pleasures? Yes. Does the second meditative absorption arise for one attending to the danger in sensual pleasures? That should not be said. Etc.

Is the first meditative absorption with applied thought and sustained thought? Yes. Is the second meditative absorption with applied thought and sustained thought? That should not be said. Etc. Does one pass over from the first meditative absorption to the second meditative absorption? Yes. Is that very first meditative absorption that second meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

814. Does one pass over from the second meditative absorption to the third meditative absorption? Yes. Whatever adverting for the arising of the second meditative absorption, etc. aspiration, is that same adverting for the arising of the third meditative absorption, etc. aspiration? That should not be said. Etc.

One passes over from the second meditative absorption to the third meditative absorption, should it not be said - "Whatever adverting for the arising of the second meditative absorption, etc. aspiration, is that same adverting for the arising of the third meditative absorption, etc. aspiration"? Yes. Does the third meditative absorption arise for one not adverting, etc. arise for one not directing? That should not be said, etc. Is it not that the third meditative absorption arises for one adverting, etc. arises for one directing? Yes. If the third meditative absorption arises for one adverting, etc. arises for one directing, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "One passes over from the second meditative absorption to the third meditative absorption."

Does one pass over from the second meditative absorption to the third meditative absorption? Yes. Does the second meditative absorption arise for one attending to the danger in applied and sustained thought? Yes. Does the third meditative absorption arise for one attending to the danger in applied and sustained thought? That should not be said. Etc.

Is the second meditative absorption with rapture? Yes. Is the third meditative absorption with rapture? That should not be said. Etc. Does one pass over from the second meditative absorption to the third meditative absorption? Yes. Is that very second meditative absorption that third meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

815. Does one pass over from the third meditative absorption to the fourth meditative absorption? Yes. Whatever adverting for the arising of the third meditative absorption, etc. aspiration, is that same adverting for the arising of the fourth meditative absorption, etc. aspiration? That should not be said. Etc.

One passes over from the third meditative absorption to the fourth meditative absorption, should it not be said - "Whatever adverting for the arising of the third meditative absorption, etc. aspiration, is that same adverting for the arising of the fourth meditative absorption, etc. aspiration"? Yes. Does the fourth meditative absorption arise for one not adverting, etc. arise for one not directing? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that the fourth meditative absorption arises for one adverting, etc. arises for one directing? Yes. If the fourth meditative absorption arises for one adverting, etc. arises for one directing, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "One passes over from the third meditative absorption to the fourth meditative absorption."

Does one pass over from the third meditative absorption to the fourth meditative absorption? Yes. Does the third meditative absorption arise for one attending to the danger in rapture? Yes. Does the fourth meditative absorption arise for one attending to the danger in rapture? That should not be said. Etc.

Is the third meditative absorption accompanied by pleasure? Yes. Is the fourth meditative absorption accompanied by pleasure? That should not be said. Etc. Does one pass over from the third meditative absorption to the fourth meditative absorption? Yes. Is that very third meditative absorption that fourth meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

816. Should it not be said - "One passes over from meditative absorption to meditative absorption"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "Here, monks, a monk, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, etc. enters and dwells in the fourth meditative absorption"! Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, one passes over from meditative absorption to meditative absorption.

The Discussion on Transition between Meditative Absorptions is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(183) 7.

Discussion on the Intermediate State between Meditative Absorptions

817. Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is there an intermediate state between contacts? Etc. Is there an intermediate state between perceptions? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the second meditative absorption and the third meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the third meditative absorption and the fourth meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the second meditative absorption and the third meditative absorption? Yes. If there is not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the second meditative absorption and the third meditative absorption, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is an intermediate state between meditative absorptions."

Is there not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the third meditative absorption and the fourth meditative absorption? Yes. If there is not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the third meditative absorption and the fourth meditative absorption, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is an intermediate state between meditative absorptions."

818. Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the first meditative absorption and the second meditative absorption? Yes. Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the second meditative absorption and the third meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the first meditative absorption and the second meditative absorption? Yes. Is there an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the third meditative absorption and the fourth meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the second meditative absorption and the third meditative absorption? Yes. Is there not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the first meditative absorption and the second meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the third meditative absorption and the fourth meditative absorption? Yes. Is there not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions in between the first meditative absorption and the second meditative absorption? That should not be said. Etc.

819. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is concentration with applied and sustained thought an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? That should not be said. Etc.

Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is concentration without applied and sustained thought an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? That should not be said. Etc.

Is concentration with applied and sustained thought not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? That should not be said. Etc.

Is concentration without applied and sustained thought not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? That should not be said. Etc.

820. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only in between two present meditative absorptions? Yes. Is it not that when concentration without applied but with sustained thought only is occurring, the first meditative absorption has ceased and the second meditative absorption is present? Yes. If when concentration without applied but with sustained thought only is occurring, the first meditative absorption has ceased and the second meditative absorption is present, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Concentration without applied but with sustained thought only in between two present meditative absorptions is an intermediate state between meditative absorptions."

821. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only not an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only the first meditative absorption... etc. the second meditative absorption, etc. the third meditative absorption... etc. the fourth meditative absorption? That should not be said. If so, concentration without applied but with sustained thought only is an intermediate state between meditative absorptions.

822. Is concentration without applied but with sustained thought only an intermediate state between meditative absorptions? Yes. Were not three concentrations said by the Blessed One - concentration with applied and sustained thought, concentration without applied but with sustained thought only, concentration without applied and sustained thought? Yes. If three concentrations were said by the Blessed One - with applied thought, etc. without sustained thought concentration, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Concentration without applied but with sustained thought only is an intermediate state between meditative absorptions."

The Discussion on the Intermediate State between Meditative Absorptions is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(184) 8.

Discussion on "One Hears Sound"

823. Does one who has attained hear sound? Yes. Does one who has attained see form with the eye... etc. with the ear... etc. with the nose, etc. with the tongue, etc. touches tangible object with the body? That should not be said. Etc.

Does one who has attained hear sound? Yes. Is one who has attained endowed with ear-consciousness? That should not be said. Is not concentration for one endowed with mind-consciousness? Yes. If concentration is for one endowed with mind-consciousness, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "one who has attained hears sound."

Concentration is for one endowed with mind-consciousness, does one endowed with ear-consciousness hear sound? Yes. If concentration is for one endowed with mind-consciousness, and one endowed with ear-consciousness hears sound, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "one who has attained hears sound." Concentration is for one endowed with mind-consciousness, does one endowed with ear-consciousness hear sound? Yes. Of two contacts... etc. is there a combination of two consciousnesses? That should not be said. Etc.

824. Should it not be said - "one who has attained hears sound"? Yes. Was not sound said by the Blessed One to be a thorn for the first meditative absorption? Yes. If sound was said by the Blessed One to be a thorn for the first meditative absorption, then indeed sir, it should be said - "one who has attained hears sound."

825. Sound was said by the Blessed One to be a thorn for the first meditative absorption, does one who has attained hear sound? Yes. Applied and sustained thought were said by the Blessed One to be a thorn for the second meditative absorption, is there applied and sustained thought for him? That should not be said. Etc.

Sound was said by the Blessed One to be a thorn for the first meditative absorption, does one who has attained hear sound? Yes. Rapture is a thorn for the third meditative absorption. Etc. In-breath and out-breath is a thorn for the fourth meditative absorption... Perception of material form is a thorn for one who has attained the plane of infinite space... Perception of the plane of infinite space is a thorn for one who has attained the plane of infinite consciousness... Perception of the plane of infinite consciousness is a thorn for one who has attained the plane of nothingness... Perception of the plane of nothingness is a thorn for one who has attained the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception... Perception and feeling were said by the Blessed One to be a thorn for one who has attained the cessation of perception and feeling, is there perception and feeling for him? That should not be said. Etc.

The Discussion on "One Hears Sound" is finished.

18.

Eighteenth Chapter

(185) 9.

Discussion on "One Sees Form with the Eye"

826. Does one see materiality with the eye? Yes. Does one see materiality by materiality? That should not be said. Etc. Does one see materiality by materiality? Yes. Does one recognize materiality by materiality? That should not be said. Etc. Does one recognize materiality by materiality? Yes. Is materiality mind-consciousness? That should not be said. Etc. Does one see materiality with the eye? Yes. Is there adverting of the eye, etc. aspiration? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that there is not adverting of the eye, etc. aspiration? Yes. If there is not adverting of the eye, etc. aspiration, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "one sees materiality with the eye."

Does one hear sound with the ear? Etc. Does one smell odour with the nose? Etc. Does one taste flavour with the tongue? Etc. touches tangible object with the body? Yes. Does one touch materiality by materiality? That should not be said. Etc.

Does one touch materiality by materiality? Yes. Does one recognize materiality by materiality? That should not be said. Etc. Does one recognize materiality by materiality? Yes. Is materiality mind-consciousness? That should not be said, etc. touches tangible object with the body? Yes. Is there adverting of the body, etc. aspiration? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that there is not adverting of the body, etc. aspiration? Yes. If there is not adverting of the body, etc. aspiration, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "one touches tangible object with the body." Etc.

827. Should it not be said - "one sees materiality with the eye"? Etc. "one touches tangible object with the body"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "Here, monks, a monk sees materiality with the eye... etc. touches tangible object with the body"! Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, one sees materiality with the eye... etc. touches tangible object with the body.

The Discussion on "One Sees Form with the Eye" is finished.

Eighteenth Chapter.

Its summary:

The Buddha, the Blessed One, stayed in the human world; the Teaching was taught by the Buddha, the Blessed One; there is no compassion in the Buddha, the Blessed One; the faeces and urine of the Buddha, the Blessed One, surpasses very much other kinds of perfumes; one realizes the four fruits of asceticism by one noble path; one passes over from meditative absorption to meditative absorption; there is an intermediate state between meditative absorptions; one who has attained hears sound; one sees materiality with the eye, touches tangible object with the body.