10.

The Connected Discourses on the Undeclared

1.

The Discourse on Khemā

410. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Sāvatthī in Jeta's Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika's park. Now at that time the nun Khemā, wandering on a journey among the Kosalans, between Sāvatthī and Sāketa, had taken up residence at Toraṇavatthu. Then King Pasenadi of Kosala, going from Sāketa to Sāvatthī, between Sāketa and Sāvatthī, went to spend one night at Toraṇavatthu. Then King Pasenadi of Kosala addressed a certain man - "Come, my good man, find out if there is in Toraṇavatthu such an ascetic or brahmin whom I might attend upon today."

"Yes, Sire," that man, having replied to King Pasenadi of Kosala, wandering about almost the entire Toraṇavatthu, did not see such an ascetic or brahmin whom King Pasenadi of Kosala might attend upon. That man saw the nun Khemā who had taken up residence at Toraṇavatthu. Having seen her, he approached King Pasenadi of Kosala; having approached, she said this to King Pasenadi of Kosala -

"There is not, Sire, in Toraṇavatthu such an ascetic or brahmin whom Your Majesty might attend upon. But there is, Sire, a nun named Khemā, a female disciple of that Blessed One, the Worthy One, the Fully Self-Enlightened One. Now such a good reputation has arisen concerning that mistress - 'Wise, learned, intelligent, very learned, of varied discourse, of good discernment.' May Your Majesty attend upon her."

Then King Pasenadi of Kosala approached the nun Khemā; having approached, he paid respect to the nun Khemā and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Pasenadi of Kosala said this to the nun Khemā - "Now what, mistress, does the Tathāgata exist after death?" "This, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata exists after death.'" "But what, mistress, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?" "This too, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'" "Now what, mistress, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?" "This, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'" "But what, mistress, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"'What now, lady, does the Tathāgata exist after death?' - thus being asked - 'This, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata exists after death' - you say. 'But what, lady, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?' - thus being asked - 'This too, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata does not exist after death' - you say. 'What now, lady, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?' - thus being asked - 'This, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' - you say. 'But what, lady, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?' - thus being asked - 'This too, great king, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' - you say. 'What now, lady, is the cause, what is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?'"

"If so, great king, I will ask you a question about this very matter. As it pleases you, so you should answer it. What do you think, great king, do you have any accountant or calculator or reckoner who is able to count the sand in the Ganges - 'so many grains of sand' or 'so many hundreds of grains of sand' or 'so many thousands of grains of sand' or 'so many hundreds of thousands of grains of sand'?" "No indeed, lady." "But do you have any accountant or calculator or reckoner who is able to count the water in the great ocean - 'so many measures of water' or 'so many hundreds of measures of water' or 'so many thousands of measures of water' or 'so many hundreds of thousands of measures of water'?" "No indeed, lady." "What is the reason for this?" "Great, lady, is the ocean - deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom." "Just so, great king, that matter by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him - that matter has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of matter, great king, the Tathāgata is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'The Tathāgata exists after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not apply.

"That feeling by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him - that feeling has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of feeling, great king, the Tathāgata is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'The Tathāgata exists after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not apply.

"That perception by which one might describe the Tathāgata, etc. Those activities by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him - those activities have been abandoned by the Tathāgata, their root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of activities, great king, the Tathāgata is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'The Tathāgata exists after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' does not apply, 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not apply.

"That consciousness by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him - that consciousness has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of consciousness, great king, the Tathāgata is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'The Tathāgata exists after death' is not befitting, 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' is not befitting, 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' is not befitting, 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' is not befitting." Then King Pasenadi of Kosala, having delighted in and given thanks for what the nun Khemā had said, rose from his seat, paid respect to the nun Khemā, circumambulated her keeping her on his right, and departed.

Then King Pasenadi of Kosala, at a later time, approached the Blessed One; having approached, he paid respect to the Blessed One and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, King Pasenadi of Kosala said this to the Blessed One - "What indeed, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata exist after death?" "This, great king, has been left undeclared by me - 'The Tathāgata exists after death.'" "But what, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?" "This too, great king, has been left undeclared by me - 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'" "What indeed, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?" "This, great king, has been left undeclared by me - 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'" "But what, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, great king, has been left undeclared by me - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'" "When asked 'What indeed, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata exist after death?' - 'This, great king, has been left undeclared by me - the Tathāgata exists after death' you say, etc. "'But what, venerable sir, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?' - thus asked - "'This too, great king, has been left undeclared by me - the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' - you say. What indeed, venerable sir, is the cause, what is the condition, by which this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?"

"If so, great king, I will ask you a question about this very matter. As it pleases you, so you should answer it. What do you think, great king, do you have any accountant or calculator or reckoner who is able to count the sand in the Ganges - 'so much sand,' or etc. 'so many hundreds of thousands of grains of sand'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "But do you have any accountant or calculator or reckoner who is able to count the water in the great ocean - 'so many measures of water,' or etc. 'so many hundreds of thousands of measures of water'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "What is the reason for this?" "Great, venerable sir, is the ocean, deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom. Even so, great king, that matter by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him - that matter has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of matter, great king, the Tathāgata is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'The Tathāgata exists after death' is not befitting, etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' is not befitting. By whatever feeling, etc. by whatever perception, etc. by whatever activities, etc."

"That consciousness by which one describing the Tathāgata might describe him - that consciousness has been abandoned by the Tathāgata, its root cut off, made like a palm stump, brought to obliteration, subject to non-arising in the future. Liberated through the extinction of consciousness, great king, the Tathāgata is deep, immeasurable, hard to fathom - just as the ocean. 'The Tathāgata exists after death' is not befitting, 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' is not befitting, 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' is not befitting, 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' is not befitting."

"Wonderful, venerable sir, marvellous, venerable sir! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the female disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching. On one occasion, venerable sir, I approached the nun Khemā and asked her about this matter. That lady too explained this matter to me with these very terms, with these very phrases, just as the Blessed One. Wonderful, venerable sir, marvellous, venerable sir! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the female disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching. Well then, venerable sir, we will now go. We have much to do, we have many duties." "Now do as you think fit, great king." Then King Pasenadi of Kosala, having delighted in and given thanks for what the Blessed One had said, rose from his seat, paid respect to the Blessed One, circumambulated him keeping him on his right, and departed. The first.

2.

The Discourse on Anurādha

411. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling at Vesālī in the Great Wood in the Pinnacled Hall. Now at that time the Venerable Anurādha was dwelling in a forest hut not far from the Blessed One. Then several heterodox wandering ascetics approached the Venerable Anurādha; having approached, they exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Anurādha. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, they sat down to one side. Seated to one side, those heterodox wandering ascetics said this to the Venerable Anurādha - "That Tathāgata, friend Anurādha, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - when describing him, does the Tathāgata describe him in these four ways: 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' or 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death,' or 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' or 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'?" "That Tathāgata, friends, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - when describing him, the Tathāgata describes him apart from these four ways: 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' or 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death,' or 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' or 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'" When this was said, those heterodox wandering ascetics said this to the Venerable Anurādha - "This monk must be new, recently gone forth, or else an elder who is foolish and inexperienced." Then those heterodox wandering ascetics, having disparaged the Venerable Anurādha with the charge of being new and the charge of being foolish, rose from their seats and departed.

Then, not long after those heterodox wandering ascetics had departed, this occurred to the Venerable Anurādha - "If those wandering ascetics of other sects were to ask me further, how would I answer them so that I would be speaking what has been said by the Blessed One, and would not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position?" Then the Venerable Anurādha approached the Blessed One; having approached, he paid respect to the Blessed One and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the Venerable Anurādha said this to the Blessed One - "Here I, venerable sir, was dwelling in a forest hut not far from the Blessed One. Then, venerable sir, several heterodox wandering ascetics approached me; having approached, they exchanged friendly greetings with me. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, they sat down to one side. Seated to one side, venerable sir, those heterodox wandering ascetics said this to me - "That Tathāgata, friend Anurādha, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - when describing him, does the Tathāgata describe him in these four ways: 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' etc. "The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death"?' When this was said, venerable sir, I said this to those heterodox wandering ascetics - "That Tathāgata, friends, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - when describing him, the Tathāgata describes him apart from these four ways: 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' etc. "The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death."' When this was said, venerable sir, those heterodox wandering ascetics said this to me - 'This monk must be new, recently gone forth, or else an elder who is foolish and inexperienced.' Then, venerable sir, those heterodox wandering ascetics, having disparaged me with the charge of being new and the charge of being foolish, rose from their seats and departed. This occurred to me, venerable sir, when those heterodox wandering ascetics had recently departed - "If those wandering ascetics of other sects were to ask me further, how would I answer them so that I would be speaking what has been said by the Blessed One, and would not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position?"

"What do you think, Anurādha, is materiality permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, venerable sir."

"But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?"

"Suffering, venerable sir."

"But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it proper to regard that - 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?"

"No, Venerable Sir."

"Is feeling permanent or impermanent?" Etc. perception... etc. activities... etc. "Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?"

"Impermanent, venerable sir."

"But what is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness?"

"Suffering, venerable sir."

"But what is impermanent, suffering, subject to change, is it proper to regard that - 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'?"

"No, Venerable Sir."

"Therefore, Anurādha, whatever materiality, past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, whether far or near, all materiality - 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' - thus this should be seen as it really is with right wisdom. Whatever feeling, past, future, or present... etc. whatever perception... etc. whatever activities... etc. whatever consciousness, past, future, or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior, whether far or near, all consciousness - 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self' - thus this should be seen as it really is with right wisdom. Seeing thus, Anurādha, a learned noble disciple becomes disenchanted with materiality, becomes disenchanted with feeling, becomes disenchanted with perception, becomes disenchanted with activities, becomes disenchanted with consciousness. Being disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate; through dispassion, he becomes liberated; when liberated, there is the knowledge: 'Liberated.' He understands: 'Birth is eliminated, the holy life has been lived, what was to be done has been done, there is no more of this state of being.'

"What do you think, Anurādha, do you regard materiality as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Do you regard feeling as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Do you regard perception as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Do you regard activities as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Do you regard consciousness as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "What do you think, Anurādha, do you regard the Tathāgata as in materiality?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from materiality?" "No, Venerable Sir." "In feeling... etc. apart from feeling... etc. in perception... etc. apart from perception... etc. in activities, etc. apart from activities... etc. do you regard the Tathāgata as in consciousness?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Do you regard the Tathāgata as apart from consciousness?" "No, Venerable Sir."

"What do you think, Anurādha, do you regard materiality, feeling, perception, activities, consciousness as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "What do you think, Anurādha, do you regard this one who is without matter, without feeling, without perception, without activities, without consciousness as the Tathāgata?" "No, Venerable Sir." "Here, Anurādha, when the Tathāgata is not found as true and reliable in this very life, is it proper for you to make this declaration - 'That Tathāgata, friends, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - when describing him, the Tathāgata describes him apart from these four ways: "The Tathāgata exists after death," etc. "The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death"?' "No, Venerable Sir." "Good, good, Anurādha! Both formerly and now, Anurādha, I declare only suffering and the cessation of suffering." The second.

3.

The First Discourse on Sāriputta and Koṭṭhika

412. On one occasion the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika were dwelling at Bārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana. Then the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika, in the evening, having emerged from seclusion, approached the Venerable Sāriputta; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Sāriputta. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika said this to the Venerable Sāriputta -

"Now what, friend Sāriputta, does the Tathāgata exist after death?" "This, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata exists after death.'" "But what, friend, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?" "This too, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'" "Now what, friend, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?" "This, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'" "But what, friend, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"When asked 'Now what, friend, does the Tathāgata exist after death?' you say 'This, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata exists after death' you say, etc. When asked 'But what, friend, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?' - 'This too, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' - you say. What now, friend, is the cause, what is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?"

"'The Tathāgata exists after death,' friend, this pertains to matter. 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death,' this pertains to matter. 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' this pertains to matter. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death,' this pertains to matter. 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' friend, this pertains to feeling. 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death,' this pertains to feeling. 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' this pertains to feeling. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death,' this pertains to feeling. 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' friend, this pertains to perception. 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death,' this pertains to perception. 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' this pertains to perception. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death,' this pertains to perception. 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' friend, this pertains to activities. 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death,' this pertains to activities. 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' this pertains to activities. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death,' this pertains to activities. 'The Tathāgata exists after death,' friend, this pertains to consciousness. 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death,' this pertains to consciousness. 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' this pertains to consciousness. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death,' this pertains to consciousness. This, friend, is the cause, this is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One." The third.

4.

The Second Discourse on Sāriputta and Koṭṭhika

413. On one occasion the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika were dwelling at Bārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana, etc. "What now, friend, is the cause, what is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?" "For one who does not know, who does not see matter as it really is, who does not know, who does not see the origin of matter as it really is, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of matter as it really is, who does not know, who does not see the practice leading to the cessation of matter as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. Feeling... etc. Perception... etc. Activities... etc. For one who does not know, who does not see consciousness as it really is, who does not know, who does not see the origin of consciousness as it really is, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of consciousness as it really is, who does not know, who does not see the practice leading to the cessation of consciousness as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him.

"But, friend, for one who knows, who sees matter as it really is, who knows, who sees the origin of matter as it really is, who knows, who sees the cessation of matter as it really is, who knows, who sees the practice leading to the cessation of matter as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. Feeling... etc. Perception... etc. Activities... etc. For one who knows, who sees consciousness as it really is, who knows, who sees the origin of consciousness as it really is, who knows, who sees the cessation of consciousness as it really is, who knows, who sees the practice leading to the cessation of consciousness as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him; 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' does not occur to him; 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' does not occur to him; 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. This, friend, is the cause, this is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One." The fourth.

5.

The Third Discourse on Sāriputta and Koṭṭhika

414. On one occasion the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika were dwelling at Bārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana, etc. "What now, friend, is the cause, what is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?" "In matter, friend, for one whose lust has not departed, whose desire has not departed, whose affection has not departed, whose thirst has not departed, whose fever has not departed, whose craving has not departed, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. In feeling, etc. in perception... etc. in activities, etc. In consciousness, for one whose lust has not departed, whose desire has not departed, whose affection has not departed, whose thirst has not departed, whose fever has not departed, whose craving has not departed, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. But in matter, friend, for one whose lust has departed, etc. in feeling, etc. in perception... etc. in activities, etc. In consciousness, for one whose lust has departed, whose desire has departed, whose affection has departed, whose thirst has departed, whose fever has departed, whose craving has departed, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. This, friend, is the cause, this is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One." The fifth.

6.

The Fourth Discourse on Sāriputta and Koṭṭhika

415. On one occasion the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika were dwelling at Bārāṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana. Then the Venerable Sāriputta, in the evening, having emerged from seclusion, approached the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the Venerable Sāriputta said this to the Venerable Mahākoṭṭhika: "Now what, friend Koṭṭhika, does the Tathāgata exist after death?" Etc. When asked 'But what, friend, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?' - 'This too, friend, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death" - you say. "What now, friend, is the cause, what is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?"

"For one who delights in matter, friend, who is devoted to matter, who rejoices in matter, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of matter as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' occurs to him; 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. For one who delights in feeling, friend, who is devoted to feeling, who rejoices in feeling, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of feeling as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. For one who delights in perception, friend, etc. For one who delights in activities, friend, etc. For one who delights in consciousness, friend, who is devoted to consciousness, who rejoices in consciousness, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of consciousness as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him.

For one who does not delight in matter, friend, who is not devoted to matter, who does not rejoice in matter, who knows, who sees the cessation of matter as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. For one who does not delight in feeling, friend, etc. For one who does not delight in perception, friend, etc. For one who does not delight in activities, friend, etc. For one who does not delight in consciousness, friend, who is not devoted to consciousness, who does not rejoice in consciousness, who knows, who sees the cessation of consciousness as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. This, friend, is the cause, this is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One."

"But might there be, friend, another method why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?" "There might be, friends. For one who delights in existence, friend, who is devoted to existence, who rejoices in existence, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of existence as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. For one who does not delight in existence, friend, who is not devoted to existence, who does not rejoice in existence, who knows, who sees the cessation of existence as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. This too, friend, is the method why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One."

"But might there be, friend, another method why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?" "There might be, friends. For one who delights in clinging, friend, who is devoted to clinging, who rejoices in clinging, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of clinging as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. But for one who does not delight in clinging, friend, who is not devoted to clinging, who does not rejoice in clinging, who knows, who sees the cessation of clinging as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. This too, friend, is a method by which this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One."

"But might there be, friend, another method why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?" "There might be, friends. For one who delights in craving, friend, who is devoted to craving, who rejoices in craving, who does not know, who does not see the cessation of craving as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' occurs to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' occurs to him. But for one who does not delight in craving, friend, who is not devoted to craving, who does not rejoice in craving, who knows, who sees the cessation of craving as it really is, 'the Tathāgata exists after death' does not occur to him, etc. 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' does not occur to him. This too, friend, is the method why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One."

"But might there be, friend, another method why this has been left undeclared by the Blessed One?" "Here now, friend Sāriputta, what more do you wish beyond this? For a monk liberated through the elimination of craving, friend Sāriputta, there is no round of rebirths to be declared." The sixth.

7.

The Discourse on Moggallāna

416. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna -

"Now what, dear Moggallāna, is the world eternal?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The world is eternal.'" "But what, dear Moggallāna, is the world non-eternal?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The world is non-eternal.'" "Now what, dear Moggallāna, is the world finite?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The world is finite.'" "But what, dear Moggallāna, is the world infinite?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The world is infinite.'" "Now what, dear Moggallāna, is the soul the same as the body?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The soul is the same as the body.'" "But what, dear Moggallāna, is the soul one thing and the body another?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The soul is one thing and the body another.'" "Now what, dear Moggallāna, does the Tathāgata exist after death?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata exists after death.'" "But what, dear Moggallāna, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'" "Now what, dear Moggallāna, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'" "But what, dear Moggallāna, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"What now, Master Moggallāna, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' or 'the world is non-eternal' or 'the world is finite' or 'the world is infinite' or 'the soul is the same as the body' or 'the soul is one thing and the body another' or 'the Tathāgata exists after death' or 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death' or 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' or 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'? But what, Master Moggallāna, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when the ascetic Gotama is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal,' 'the world is non-eternal,' 'the world is finite,' 'the world is infinite,' 'the soul is the same as the body,' 'the soul is one thing and the body another,' 'the Tathāgata exists after death,' 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death,' 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"Heterodox wandering ascetics, Vaccha, regard the eye thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'... etc... they regard the tongue thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'... etc... they regard the mind thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'. Therefore, when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.' But the Tathāgata, Vaccha, the Worthy One, the Fully Self-Enlightened One, regards the eye thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'... etc... he regards the tongue thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'... etc... he regards the mind thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'. Therefore, when the Tathāgata is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta, having risen from his seat, approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One - "What now, Master Gotama, is the world eternal?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by me - 'The world is eternal'... etc... "But what, Master Gotama, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by me - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"What now, Master Gotama, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'? But what, Master Gotama, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when Master Gotama is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"Heterodox wandering ascetics, Vaccha, regard the eye thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'... etc... they regard the tongue thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'... etc... they regard the mind thus: 'This is mine, this I am, this is my self'. Therefore, when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' or. But the Tathāgata, Vaccha, the Worthy One, the Fully Self-Enlightened One, regards the eye thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'... etc... he regards the tongue thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'... etc... he regards the mind thus: 'This is not mine, this I am not, this is not my self'. Therefore, when the Tathāgata is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal,' 'the world is non-eternal,' 'the world is finite,' 'the world is infinite,' 'the soul is the same as the body,' 'the soul is one thing and the body another,' 'the Tathāgata exists after death,' 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death,' 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"It is wonderful, Master Gotama, it is marvellous, Master Gotama! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching. Just now, Master Gotama, I approached the ascetic Mahāmoggallāna and asked him about this matter. The ascetic Moggallāna too explained that matter to me with these very terms, with these very phrases, just as Master Gotama. It is wonderful, Master Gotama, it is marvellous, Master Gotama! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching." The seventh.

8.

The Discourse to Vacchagotta

417. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One - "What now, Master Gotama, is the world eternal?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by me - 'The world is eternal'... etc... "But what, Master Gotama, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by me - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"What now, Master Gotama, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'? But what, Master Gotama, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when Master Gotama is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"Heterodox wandering ascetics, Vaccha, regard matter as self, or self as possessing matter, or matter as in self, or self as in matter. They regard feeling as self... etc... Perception... etc. Activities... etc. they regard consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. Therefore, when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' or. But the Tathāgata, Vaccha, the Worthy One, the Fully Self-Enlightened One, does not regard matter as self, nor self as possessing matter, nor matter as in self, nor self as in matter. He does not regard feeling as self... etc... not perception... etc... not activities... etc. he does not regard consciousness as self, nor self as possessing consciousness, nor consciousness as in self, nor self as in consciousness. Therefore, when the Tathāgata is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta, having risen from his seat, approached the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Venerable Mahāmoggallāna - "Now what, dear Moggallāna, is the world eternal?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The world is eternal'... etc... "But what, dear Moggallāna, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"What now, dear Moggallāna, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'? But what, dear Moggallāna, is the cause, what is the condition, by which when the ascetic Gotama is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal'... etc... 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death'?"

"Heterodox wandering ascetics, Vaccha, regard matter as self, or self as possessing matter, or matter as in self, or self as in matter. They regard feeling as self... etc... Perception... etc. Activities... etc. they regard consciousness as self, or self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in self, or self as in consciousness. Therefore, when heterodox wandering ascetics are thus questioned, they give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal' etc. 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' or. But the Tathāgata, Vaccha, the Worthy One, the Fully Self-Enlightened One, does not regard matter as self, nor self as possessing matter, nor matter as in self, nor self as in matter. He does not regard feeling as self... etc... not perception... etc... not activities... etc. he does not regard consciousness as self, nor self as possessing consciousness, nor consciousness as in self, nor self as in consciousness. Therefore, when the Tathāgata is thus questioned, he does not give such an explanation - 'The world is eternal,' 'the world is non-eternal,' 'the world is finite,' 'the world is infinite,' 'the soul is the same as the body,' 'the soul is one thing and the body another,' 'the Tathāgata exists after death,' 'the Tathāgata does not exist after death,' 'the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death,' 'the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"It is wonderful, my dear Moggallāna, it is marvellous, my dear Moggallāna! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching. Just now, my dear Moggallāna, I approached the ascetic Gotama and asked him about this matter. The ascetic Gotama too explained this matter to me with these very terms, with these very phrases, just as the Venerable Moggallāna. It is wonderful, my dear Moggallāna, it is marvellous, my dear Moggallāna! That indeed the meaning with meaning, the phrasing with phrasing of both the Teacher and the disciple will fit together, will agree, will not conflict, that is to say, regarding the highest teaching." The eighth.

9.

The Discourse at the Debating Hall

418. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One -

"Some days ago, Master Gotama, earlier than that, when many ascetics and brahmins of various sects, wandering ascetics, were sitting together assembled in the debating hall, this discussion arose - 'This Pūraṇa Kassapa has a following, has a group, is a teacher of a group, is well-known, famous, a founder of a sect, highly honoured by many people. He too declares the rebirths of a disciple who has passed away and died - 'Such a one has been reborn there, such a one has been reborn there.' Whoever is his disciple, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - that disciple too who has passed away and died, he declares regarding rebirths - "Such a one has been reborn there, such a one has been reborn there."'

"This Makkhali Gosāla too... etc. this Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta too... etc. this Sañcaya Belaṭṭhaputta too... etc. this Pakudha Kaccāna too... etc. this Ajita Kesakambala too has a following, has a group, is a teacher of a group, is well-known, famous, a founder of a sect, highly honoured by many people. He too declares the rebirths of a disciple who has passed away and died - 'Such a one has been reborn there, such a one has been reborn there.' Whoever is his disciple, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - that disciple too who has passed away and died, he declares regarding rebirths - "Such a one has been reborn there, such a one has been reborn there."'

"This ascetic Gotama too has a following, has a group, is a teacher of a group, is well-known, famous, a founder of a sect, highly honoured by many people. He too declares the rebirths of a disciple who has passed away and died - 'Such a one has been reborn there, such a one has been reborn there.' But whoever is his disciple, the highest person, the supreme person, one who has attained the supreme attainment - that disciple who has passed away and died, he does not declare regarding rebirths - 'Such a one has been reborn there, such a one has been reborn there.' But rather he declares thus - "He has cut off craving, turned back the mental fetters, through the complete full realization of conceit he has made an end of suffering."' Then, Master Gotama, there was indeed uncertainty in me, there was sceptical doubt - 'How indeed is the teaching of the ascetic Gotama to be directly known?'"

"Indeed it is enough for you to be uncertain, Vaccha, enough to have sceptical doubt. Sceptical doubt has arisen in you in a matter that should be doubted. I declare rebirth, Vaccha, for one with clinging, not for one without clinging. Just as, Vaccha, fire burns with fuel, not without fuel; just so, Vaccha, I declare rebirth for one with clinging, not for one without clinging."

"At the time, Master Gotama, when a flame thrown by the wind goes even far, what clinging does Master Gotama declare for this?" "At the time, Vaccha, when a flame thrown by the wind goes even far, I declare that to be wind-clinging. For wind, Vaccha, at that time is the clinging." "But at the time, Master Gotama, when one lays down this body, and a being has not yet arisen in another body, what clinging does Master Gotama declare for this?" "At the time, Vaccha, when one lays down this body, and a being has not yet arisen in another body, I call that craving-clinging. For craving, Vaccha, at that time is the clinging." The ninth.

10.

The Discourse on Ānanda

419. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Blessed One - "What now, Master Gotama, is there a self?" When this was said, the Blessed One remained silent. "What then, Master Gotama, is there no self?" For the second time the Blessed One remained silent. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta rose from his seat and departed.

Then the Venerable Ānanda, when the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta had recently departed, said this to the Blessed One - "Why indeed, venerable sir, did the Blessed One not answer the question asked by the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta?" "If I, Ānanda, when asked by the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta 'is there a self?' had answered 'there is a self,' that would have been in accordance with those ascetics and brahmins who hold the doctrine of eternalism. If I, Ānanda, when asked by the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta 'is there no self?' had answered 'there is no self,' that would have been in accordance with those ascetics and brahmins who hold the doctrine of annihilationism. If I, Ānanda, when asked by the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta 'is there a self?' had answered 'there is a self,' would that have been in conformity with the arising of knowledge - 'all phenomena are non-self'?" "No, Venerable Sir." "If I, Ānanda, when asked by the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta 'is there no self?' had answered 'there is no self,' for the deluded wandering ascetic Vacchagotta, Ānanda, it would have been for even more confusion - 'Surely I had a self before, but now it does not exist.'" The tenth.

11.

The Discourse on Sabhiya Kaccāna

420. On one occasion the Venerable Sabhiya Kaccāna was dwelling at Ñātika in the brick house. Then the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta approached the Venerable Sabhiya Kaccāna; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Sabhiya Kaccāna. Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Vacchagotta said this to the Venerable Sabhiya Kaccāna - "Now what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata exist after death?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata exists after death.'" "But what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata does not exist after death.'"

"Now what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?" "This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death.'" "But what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?" "This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - 'The Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death.'"

"'Now what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata exist after death?' - thus asked - 'This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata exists after death' - you say. 'But what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata not exist after death?' - thus asked - 'This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata does not exist after death' - you say. 'Now what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata both exist and not exist after death?' - thus asked - 'This, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata both exists and does not exist after death' - you say. 'But what, dear Kaccāna, does the Tathāgata neither exist nor not exist after death?' - thus asked - 'This too, Vaccha, has been left undeclared by the Blessed One - the Tathāgata neither exists nor does not exist after death' - you say. What now, dear Kaccāna, is the cause, what is the condition, why this has been left undeclared by the ascetic Gotama?" "Whatever cause and whatever condition there is, Vaccha, for describing as 'material' or 'immaterial' or 'percipient' or 'non-percipient' or 'neither percipient nor non-percipient,' if that cause and that condition were to cease entirely, in every way, without remainder, by what would one describing describe it as 'material' or 'immaterial' or 'percipient' or 'non-percipient' or 'neither percipient nor non-percipient'?" "How long have you been gone forth, dear Kaccāna?" "Not long, friend, three rains retreats." "For anyone, friend, for whom this much in this much time would be this much, that would be much; what then to say of one so advanced!" The eleventh.

The Connected Discourses on the Undeclared is complete.

Its summary:

The Chapter on the Six Sense Bases is fourth.

Its summary:

The Pāḷi of the Connected Discourses of the Chapter on the Six Sense Bases is concluded.