6.
The Discourse on Upavāṇa
26.
He was dwelling at Sāvatthī.
Then the Venerable Upavāṇa approached the Blessed One;
having approached, he paid respect to the Blessed One and sat down to one side.
Seated to one side, the Venerable Upavāṇa said this to the Blessed One -
"There are, venerable sir, some ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be self-made. And there are, venerable sir, some ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be made by another. And there are, venerable sir, some ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be both self-made and made by another. And there are, venerable sir, some ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen. Here, venerable sir, what does the Blessed One assert, what does he proclaim, and how answering would we be ones who speak what has been said by the Blessed One, and would not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position?"
"Suffering, Upavāṇa, has been declared by me to be dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact.' Thus speaking, one would be one who speaks what has been said by me, and would not misrepresent me with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position.
"Therein, Upavāṇa, those ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be self-made, that too is conditioned by contact. And those who... etc. and those who... etc. and those ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen, that too is conditioned by contact.
"Therein, Upavāṇa, those ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be self-made, that they should experience this without contact - this is impossible. And those who... etc. and those who... etc. and those ascetics and brahmins who declare suffering to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen, that they should experience this without contact - this is impossible." The sixth.