8.
The Discourse on Timbaruka
18.
He was dwelling at Sāvatthī.
Then the wandering ascetic Timbaruka approached the Blessed One;
having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Blessed One.
Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side.
Seated to one side, the wandering ascetic Timbaruka said this to the Blessed One -
"What then, Master Gotama, is pleasure and pain self-made?" "Do not say so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said. "What then, Master Gotama, is pleasure and pain made by another?" "Do not say so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said. "What then, Master Gotama, is pleasure and pain both self-made and made by another?" "Do not say so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said. "What then, Master Gotama, is pleasure and pain neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen?" "Do not say so, Timbaruka," the Blessed One said. "What then, Master Gotama, is there no pleasure and pain?" "It is not, Timbaruka, that there is no pleasure and pain; there is indeed, Timbaruka, pleasure and pain." "Then Master Gotama does not know pleasure and pain, does not see it?" "It is not, Timbaruka, that I do not know pleasure and pain, that I do not see it. I do know, Timbaruka, pleasure and pain; I do see, Timbaruka, pleasure and pain."
"Why is it, Master Gotama, that when asked 'Is pleasure and pain self-made?' you say 'Do not say so, Timbaruka'? Why is it, Master Gotama, that when asked 'Is pleasure and pain made by another?' you say 'Do not say so, Timbaruka'? Why is it, Master Gotama, that when asked 'Is pleasure and pain both self-made and made by another?' you say 'Do not say so, Timbaruka'? Why is it, Master Gotama, that when asked 'Is pleasure and pain neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen?' you say 'Do not say so, Timbaruka'? Why is it, Master Gotama, that when asked 'Is there no pleasure and pain?' you say 'It is not, Timbaruka, that there is no pleasure and pain; there is indeed, Timbaruka, pleasure and pain'? When asked 'Then Master Gotama does not know pleasure and pain, does not see it,' you say 'It is not, Timbaruka, that I do not know pleasure and pain, that I do not see it. I do know, Timbaruka, pleasure and pain; I do see, Timbaruka, pleasure and pain.' Let Master Gotama explain pleasure and pain to me. Let Master Gotama teach pleasure and pain to me."
"'That feeling, he feels' - Timbaruka, saying thus from the beginning, 'pleasure and pain are self-made,' I do not speak thus. 'One feeling, another feels' - Timbaruka, for one overwhelmed by feeling, saying thus 'pleasure and pain are made by another,' I do not speak thus. Not approaching these two extremes, Timbaruka, the Truth-finder expounds the Teaching by the middle - 'With ignorance as condition, activities; with activities as condition, consciousness; etc. Thus is the origin of this whole mass of suffering. But from the complete fading away and cessation of ignorance comes the cessation of activities; from the cessation of activities comes the cessation of consciousness; etc. Thus is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.'"
When this was said, the wandering ascetic Timbaruka said this to the Blessed One - "Excellent, Master Gotama! Etc. I go for refuge to Master Gotama, to the Teaching, and to the Community of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forth for life." The eighth.