5.
The Discourse on Bhūmija
25.
He was dwelling at Sāvatthī.
Then the Venerable Bhūmija, in the evening, having emerged from seclusion, approached the Venerable Sāriputta;
having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Sāriputta.
Having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side.
Seated to one side, the Venerable Bhūmija said this to the Venerable Sāriputta -
"There are, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be self-made. There are also, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be made by another. There are, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be both self-made and made by another. There are also, friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen. Here, friend Sāriputta, what does the Blessed One assert, what does he proclaim, and how answering would we be ones who speak what has been said by the Blessed One, and would not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position?"
"Pleasure and pain have been declared by the Blessed One to be dependently arisen, friend. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact.' Thus speaking, one would be one who speaks what has been said by the Blessed One, and would not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position.
"Therein, friend, those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be self-made, that too is conditioned by contact. And those who... etc. and those who... etc. and those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen, that too is conditioned by contact.
"Therein, friend, those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be self-made, that they should experience this without contact - this is impossible. And those who, etc. ... and those who... etc. and those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of kamma and declare pleasure and pain to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen, that they should experience this without contact - this is impossible."
The Venerable Ānanda heard this friendly conversation of the Venerable Sāriputta with the Venerable Bhūmija. Then the Venerable Ānanda approached the Blessed One; having approached, he paid respect to the Blessed One and sat down to one side. Seated to one side, the Venerable Ānanda reported to the Blessed One all the friendly conversation that the Venerable Sāriputta had with the Venerable Bhūmija.
"Good, good, Ānanda, as Sāriputta answering rightly would answer. Pleasure and pain, Ānanda, have been declared by me to be dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact.' Thus speaking, one would be one who speaks what has been said by me, and would not misrepresent me with what is untrue, and would explain what is in conformity with the Teaching, and no reasonable counter-argument would come to a blameworthy position.
"Therein, Ānanda, as to those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of karma and declare pleasure and pain to be self-made, that too is conditioned by contact. And those who... etc. and those who... etc. and those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of karma and declare pleasure and pain to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen, that too is conditioned by contact.
"Therein, Ānanda, as to those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of karma and declare pleasure and pain to be self-made, that they should experience this without contact - this is impossible. And those who... etc. and those who... etc. and those ascetics and brahmins who hold the view of the efficacy of karma and declare pleasure and pain to be neither self-made nor made by another but fortuitously arisen, that they should experience this without contact - this is impossible.
"If, Ānanda, there is body, because of bodily volition there arises internal pleasure and pain. If, Ānanda, there is speech, because of verbal volition there arises internal pleasure and pain. If, Ānanda, there is mind, because of mental volition there arises internal pleasure and pain, and with ignorance as condition.
"Either oneself, Ānanda, generates that bodily activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or others, Ānanda, generate that bodily activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or fully aware, Ānanda, one generates that bodily activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or not fully aware, Ānanda, one generates that bodily activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain.
"Either oneself, Ānanda, generates that verbal activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or others, Ānanda, generate that verbal activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or fully aware, Ānanda, etc. or not fully aware, Ānanda, one generates that verbal activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain.
"Either oneself, Ānanda, generates that mental activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or others, Ānanda, generate that mental activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. Or fully aware, Ānanda, etc. or not fully aware, Ānanda, one generates that mental activity, because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain.
"In these states, Ānanda, ignorance is involved. But from the complete fading away and cessation of ignorance, Ānanda, that body does not exist because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. That speech does not exist because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. That mind does not exist because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain. That field does not exist, etc. that site does not exist, etc. that base does not exist, etc. that cause does not exist because of which condition there arises for him internal pleasure and pain." The fifth.