8.
The Discourse at Kosambī
68.
On one occasion the Venerable Musila, the Venerable Paviṭṭha, the Venerable Nārada, and the Venerable Ānanda were dwelling at Kosambī in Ghosita's park.
Then the Venerable Paviṭṭha said this to the Venerable Musila -
"Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Musila have individual knowledge -
'Birth is the condition for ageing and death'?"
"Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this -
'Birth is the condition for ageing and death.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Musila have individual knowledge - 'Existence is the condition for birth,' etc. 'Clinging is the condition for existence,' 'Craving is the condition for clinging,' 'Feeling is the condition for craving,' 'Contact is the condition for feeling,' 'The six sense bases are the condition for contact,' 'Mentality-materiality is the condition for the six sense bases,' 'Consciousness is the condition for mentality-materiality,' 'Activities are the condition for consciousness,' 'Ignorance is the condition for activities'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'ignorance is the condition for activities.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Musila have individual knowledge - 'From the cessation of birth comes the cessation of ageing and death'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'From the cessation of birth comes the cessation of ageing and death.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Musila have individual knowledge - 'From the cessation of existence comes the cessation of birth,' etc. 'From the cessation of clinging comes the cessation of existence,' 'From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging,' 'From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving,' 'From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling,' 'From the cessation of the six sense bases comes the cessation of contact,' 'From the cessation of mentality-materiality comes the cessation of the six sense bases,' 'From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of mentality-materiality,' 'From the cessation of activities comes the cessation of consciousness,' 'From the cessation of ignorance comes the cessation of activities'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'From the cessation of ignorance comes the cessation of activities.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Musila, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Musila have individual knowledge - 'The cessation of existence is Nibbāna'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'The cessation of existence is Nibbāna.'"
"Then is the Venerable Musila a Worthy One who has eliminated the mental corruptions?" When this was said, the Venerable Musila remained silent. Then the Venerable Nārada said this to the Venerable Paviṭṭha - "Good, friend Paviṭṭha, may I receive this question. Ask me this question. I will answer this question for you." "Let the Venerable Nārada receive this question. I ask the Venerable Nārada this question. And let the Venerable Nārada answer this question for me."
"Apart from faith, friend Nārada, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Nārada have individual knowledge - 'Birth is the condition for ageing and death'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'Birth is the condition for ageing and death.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Nārada, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Nārada have individual knowledge - existence is the condition for birth, etc. ignorance is the condition for activities?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'ignorance is the condition for activities.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Nārada, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Nārada have individual knowledge - 'From the cessation of birth comes the cessation of ageing and death'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'From the cessation of birth comes the cessation of ageing and death.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Nārada, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Nārada have individual knowledge - 'From the cessation of existence comes the cessation of birth,' etc. 'From the cessation of ignorance comes the cessation of activities'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'From the cessation of ignorance comes the cessation of activities.'"
"Apart from faith, friend Nārada, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, does the Venerable Nārada have individual knowledge - 'The cessation of existence is Nibbāna'?" "Apart from faith, friend Paviṭṭha, apart from personal preference, apart from oral tradition, apart from reflection on appearances, apart from acceptance of a view after pondering it, I know this, I see this - 'The cessation of existence is Nibbāna.'"
"Then is the Venerable Nārada a Worthy One, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions?" "'The cessation of existence is Nibbāna' has been well seen by me, friend, as it really is with right wisdom, yet I am not a Worthy One, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions. Just as, friend, on a route in the desert there is a well. There would be neither a rope nor a water jar. Then a man might come along, overcome by heat, afflicted by heat, weary, thirsty and parched; he would look into that well. He would have the knowledge 'water,' but he would not be able to touch it with his body and dwell. So too, friend, 'The cessation of existence is Nibbāna' has been well seen as it really is with right wisdom, yet I am not a Worthy One, one who has eliminated the mental corruptions."
When this was said, the Venerable Ānanda said this to the Venerable Paviṭṭha - "Speaking thus, friend Paviṭṭha, what do you say about the Venerable Nārada?" "Speaking thus, friend Ānanda, I say nothing about the Venerable Nārada except what is good, except what is wholesome." The eighth.