17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(166) 1.

Discussion on the Accumulation of Merit for a Worthy One

776. Is there accumulation of merit for a Worthy One? Yes. Is there accumulation of demerit for a Worthy One? That should not be said. Etc. Is there not accumulation of demerit for a Worthy One? Yes. Is there not accumulation of merit for a Worthy One? That should not be said. Etc.

777. Is there accumulation of merit for a Worthy One? Yes. Does a Worthy One generate meritorious volitional activity, generate imperturbable volitional activity, perform action leading to destination, perform action leading to existence, perform action leading to supremacy, perform action leading to lordship, perform action leading to great wealth, perform action leading to great retinue, perform action leading to divine fortune, perform action leading to human fortune? That should not be said. Etc.

778. Is there accumulation of merit for a Worthy One? Yes. Does a Worthy One accumulate? That should not be said. Etc. Does a Worthy One diminish? That should not be said, etc. Does a Worthy One abandon? Etc. Does a Worthy One cling? Etc. Does a Worthy One scatter? Etc. Does a Worthy One heap up? Etc. Does a Worthy One extinguish? Etc. Does a Worthy One kindle? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that a Worthy One neither accumulates nor diminishes; having diminished, he stands firm? Yes. If a Worthy One neither accumulates nor diminishes, having diminished, stands firm, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is accumulation of merit for a Worthy One."

Is it not that a Worthy One neither abandons nor clings, having abandoned, stands firm; neither scatters nor heaps up, having scattered, stands firm; neither extinguishes nor kindles, having extinguished, stands firm? Yes. If a Worthy One neither extinguishes nor kindles, having extinguished, he stands firm, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is accumulation of merit for a Worthy One."

779. Is there not accumulation of merit for a Worthy One? Yes. Would a Worthy One give a gift? Yes. If a Worthy One would give a gift, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is not accumulation of merit for a Worthy One."

Would a Worthy One give a robe? Etc. Would give almsfood? Would give lodging? Would give the requisite of medicines for the sick? Would give solid food? Would give soft food? Would give drinking water? Would venerate a shrine? Would place a garland at a shrine? Would place scent? Would place cosmetics? Etc. Would circumambulate a shrine keeping it to the right? Yes. If a Worthy One would circumambulate a shrine keeping it to the right, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is not accumulation of merit for a Worthy One."

The discussion on there being accumulation of merit for a Worthy One is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(167) 2.

Discussion on There Being No Untimely Death for a Worthy One

780. Is there not untimely death for a Worthy One? Yes. Is there not a killer of an arahant? That should not be said. Etc. Is there a killer of an arahant? Yes. Is there untimely death for a Worthy One? That should not be said. Etc. Is there not untimely death for a Worthy One? Yes. One who deprives a Worthy One of life, does one deprive of life when there is life, when there is a remainder of life, or does one deprive of life when there is no life, when there is no remainder of life? One deprives of life when there is life, when there is a remainder of life. If one deprives of life when there is life, when there is a remainder of life, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is not untimely death for a Worthy One." Does one deprive of life when there is no life, when there is no remainder of life, is there not a killer of an arahant? That should not be said. Etc.

781. Is there not untimely death for a Worthy One? Yes. Would poison not penetrate the body of a Worthy One, would a knife not penetrate, would fire not penetrate? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that poison would penetrate the body of a Worthy One, a knife would penetrate, fire would penetrate? Yes. If poison would penetrate the body of a Worthy One, a knife would penetrate, fire would penetrate, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is not untimely death for a Worthy One."

Would poison not penetrate the body of a Worthy One, would a knife not penetrate, would fire not penetrate? Yes. Is there not a killer of an arahant? That should not be said. Etc.

782. Is there untimely death for a Worthy One? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "I do not say, monks, that there is destruction of intentional actions that have been done and accumulated without experiencing them; and that indeed either in this very life, or upon rebirth, or in some other subsequent existence." Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, there is no untimely death for a Worthy One.

The discussion on there being no untimely death for a Worthy One is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(168) 3.

Discussion on All This Being from Action

783. Is all this action? Yes. Is action also action? That should not be said. Etc. Is all this action? Yes. Is all this caused by what was done in the past? That should not be said. Etc. Is all this action? Yes. Is all this the result of action? That should not be said. Etc.

784. Is all this the result of action? Yes. Would one kill a living being by the result of action? Yes. Is killing living beings fruitful? Yes. Is the result of action fruitful? That should not be said. Etc. Is the result of action fruitless? Yes. Is killing living beings fruitless? That should not be said. Etc.

Would one take what is not given by the result of action? Etc. Would speak falsely? Would speak divisively? Would speak harshly? Would engage in idle chatter? Would break into houses? Would plunder? Would commit burglary? Would wait in ambush? Would go to another's wife? Would sack a village? Would sack a market town? Would one give a gift by the result of action? Would give a robe? Would give almsfood? Would give lodging? Would give the requisite of medicines for the sick? Yes. Is the requisite of medicines for the sick fruitful? Yes. Is the result of action fruitful? That should not be said. Etc. Is the result of action fruitless? Yes. Is the requisite of medicines for the sick fruitless? That should not be said. Etc.

785. Should it not be said - "all this is from action"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One -

Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, "all this is from action."

The discussion on all this being from action is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(169) 4.

Discussion on Being Bound by the Faculties

786. Is only that which is bound by the senses suffering? Yes. Is only that which is bound by the senses impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, having the nature of falling, subject to fading away, having the nature of cessation, subject to change? That should not be said. Etc. Is not that which is not bound by the senses impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, having the nature of falling, subject to fading away, having the nature of cessation, subject to change? Yes. If that which is not bound by the senses is impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, subject to destruction, having the nature of falling, subject to fading away, having the nature of cessation, subject to change, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Only that which is bound by the senses is suffering."

That which is not bound by the senses is impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen, etc. subject to change, and is that not suffering? Yes. That which is bound by the senses is impermanent, conditioned, etc. subject to change, and is that not suffering? That should not be said. Etc.

That which is bound by the senses is impermanent, conditioned, etc. subject to change, and is that suffering? Yes. That which is not bound by the senses is impermanent, conditioned, etc. subject to change, and is that suffering? That should not be said. Etc.

787. Is only that which is bound by the senses suffering? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One, "What is impermanent, that is suffering" - "That which is not bound by the senses is impermanent"? Yes. If it was said by the Blessed One, "What is impermanent, that is suffering" - that which is not bound by the senses is impermanent, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Only that which is bound by the senses is suffering."

788. Should it not be said - "Only that which is bound by the senses is suffering"? Yes. Just as the holy life is lived under the Blessed One for the full understanding of suffering that is bound by the senses, so too is the holy life lived under the Blessed One for the full understanding of suffering that is not bound by the senses? That should not be said. Etc. Just as suffering that is bound by the senses, when fully understood, does not arise again, so too suffering that is not bound by the senses, when fully understood, does not arise again? That should not be said. If so, only that which is bound by the senses is suffering.

The discussion on being bound by the faculties is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(170) 5.

Discussion on Setting Aside the Noble Path

789. Setting aside the noble path, are the remaining activities suffering? Yes. Is the origin of suffering also suffering? That should not be said. Etc. Is the origin of suffering also suffering? Yes. Are there only three noble truths? That should not be said. Etc. Are there only three noble truths? Yes. Were not four noble truths spoken of by the Blessed One - suffering, the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, the practice leading to the cessation of suffering? Yes. If four noble truths were spoken of by the Blessed One - suffering, the origin of suffering, the cessation of suffering, the practice leading to the cessation of suffering; then indeed sir, it should not be said - "there are only three noble truths."

Is the origin of suffering also suffering? Yes. For what purpose? In the meaning of impermanence. Is the noble path impermanent? Yes. Is the noble path suffering? That should not be said. Etc.

Is the noble path impermanent, and is it not suffering? Yes. Is the origin of suffering impermanent, and is it not suffering? That should not be said. Etc. Is the origin of suffering impermanent, and is it suffering? Yes. Is the noble path impermanent, and is it suffering? That should not be said. Etc.

790. Should it not be said - "Setting aside the noble path, are the remaining activities suffering"? Yes. Is it not that practice leading to the cessation of suffering? Yes. If it is that practice leading to the cessation of suffering, then indeed sir, it should be said - "Setting aside the noble path, the remaining activities are suffering."

The discussion on setting aside the noble path is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(171) 6.

Discussion on It Should Not Be Said that the Community Receives Offerings

791. Should it not be said - "The Community receives offerings"? Yes. Is not the Community worthy of offerings, worthy of hospitality, worthy of gifts, worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world? Yes. If the Community is worthy of offerings, worthy of hospitality, worthy of gifts, worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community receives offerings."

Should it not be said - "The Community receives offerings"? Yes. Were not the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings? Yes. If the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, were declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community receives offerings."

Should it not be said - "The Community receives offerings"? Yes. Is it not that there are some who give gifts to the Community? Yes. If there are some who give gifts to the Community, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community receives offerings." Is it not that there are some who give robes to the Community? Etc. They give almsfood... They give lodging... They give the requisite of medicines for the sick... They give solid food... They give soft food... Etc. They give drinking water? Yes. If there are some who give drinking water to the Community, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community receives offerings."

Should it not be said - "The Community receives offerings"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One -

Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, the Community accepts offerings.

792. Does the Community accept offerings? Yes. Does the path accept, does the fruit accept? That should not be said. Etc.

The discussion on it should not be said that the Community receives offerings is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(172) 7.

Discussion on It Should Not Be Said that the Community Purifies Offerings

793. Should it not be said - "The Community purifies offerings"? Yes. Is not the Community worthy of offerings, worthy of hospitality, worthy of gifts, worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world? Yes. If the Community is worthy of offerings, etc. an unsurpassed field of merit for the world, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community purifies offerings."

Should it not be said - "The Community purifies offerings"? Yes. Were not the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings? Yes. If the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, were declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community purifies offerings."

Should it not be said - "The Community purifies offerings"? Yes. Is it not that there are some who, having given a gift to the Community, succeed in their offering? Yes. If there are some who, having given a gift to the Community, succeed in their offering, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community purifies offerings."

Is it not that there are some who, having given a robe to the Community, etc. having given almsfood, etc. having given lodging, having given the requisite of medicines for the sick, having given solid food, having given soft food, etc. having given drinking water, succeed in their offering? Yes. If there are some who, having given drinking water to the Community, succeed in their offering, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community purifies offerings."

794. Does the Community purify the offering? Yes. Does the path purify, does the fruit purify? That should not be said. Etc.

The discussion on it should not be said that the Community purifies offerings is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(173) 8.

Discussion on It Should Not Be Said that the Community Eats

795. Should it not be said - "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes"? Yes. Is it not that there are some who prepare meals for the Community, prepare meals for recitation, prepare rice gruel beverages? Yes. If there are some who prepare meals for the Community, prepare meals for recitation, prepare rice gruel beverages, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes."

Should it not be said - "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "Group meal, replacing a meal invitation, leftover food, not leftover food"? Yes. If it was said by the Blessed One - "Group meal, replacing a meal invitation, leftover food, not leftover food", then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes."

Should it not be said - "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes"? Yes. Were not eight beverages spoken of by the Blessed One - mango beverage, rose-apple beverage, banana with seeds beverage, seedless banana beverage, madhuka beverage, grape beverage, lotus root beverage, sweet lovi-lovi beverage? Yes. If eight beverages were spoken of by the Blessed One - mango beverage, rose-apple beverage, banana with seeds beverage, seedless banana beverage, madhuka beverage, grape beverage, lotus root beverage, sweet lovi-lovi beverage, then indeed sir, it should be said - "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes."

796. "The Community eats, drinks, chews, and tastes"? Yes. "The path eats, drinks, chews, and tastes; the fruit eats, drinks, chews, and tastes"? That should not be said. Etc.

The discussion on it should not be said that the Community eats is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(174) 9.

Discussion on It Should Not Be Said that What Is Given to the Community Is of Great Fruit

797. Should it not be said - "What is given to the Community is of great fruit"? Yes. Is not the Community worthy of offerings, worthy of hospitality, worthy of gifts, worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world? Yes. If the Community is worthy of offerings, etc. an unsurpassed field of merit for the world, then indeed sir, it should be said - "What is given to the Community is of great fruit."

Should it not be said - "What is given to the Community is of great fruit"? Yes. Were not the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings? Yes. If the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, were declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings, then indeed sir, it should be said - "What is given to the Community is of great fruit."

798. Should it not be said - "What is given to the Community is of great fruit"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "Give it to the monastic community, Gotamī. When you have given it to the monastic community, both I shall be venerated and the monastic community as well." Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, what is given to the Community is of great fruit.

Should it not be said - "What is given to the Community is of great fruit"? Yes. Did not Sakka, the lord of the gods, say this to the Blessed One -

Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, what is given to the Community is of great fruit.

The discussion on it should not be said that what is given to the Community is of great fruit is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(175) 10.

Discussion on It Should Not Be Said that What Is Given to the Buddha Is of Great Fruit

799. Should it not be said - "What is given to the Buddha is of great fruit"? Yes. Is not the Blessed One the foremost of two-footed beings, the best of two-footed beings, the chief of two-footed beings, the highest of two-footed beings, the most excellent of two-footed beings, matchless, equal to the matchless, without equal, without counterpart, matchless person? Yes. If the Blessed One is the foremost of two-footed beings, the best of two-footed beings, the chief of two-footed beings, the highest of two-footed beings, the most excellent of two-footed beings, matchless, equal to the matchless, without equal, without counterpart, matchless person, then indeed sir, it should be said - "What is given to the Buddha is of great fruit."

Should it not be said - "What is given to the Buddha is of great fruit"? Yes. Is there anyone equal to the Buddha - in morality, concentration, and wisdom? There is not. If there is not anyone equal to the Buddha - in morality, concentration, and wisdom, then indeed sir, it should be said - "What is given to the Buddha is of great fruit."

Should it not be said - "What is given to the Buddha is of great fruit"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One -

Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, what is given to the Buddha is of great fruit.

The discussion on it should not be said that what is given to the Buddha is of great fruit is finished.

17.

Seventeenth Chapter

(176) 11.

Discussion on Purification of Offerings

800. Does giving become pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient? Yes. Is it not that there are some recipients who are worthy of offerings, worthy of hospitality, worthy of gifts, worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world? Yes. If there are some recipients who are worthy of offerings, worthy of hospitality, worthy of gifts, worthy of reverential salutation, an unsurpassed field of merit for the world, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Giving becomes pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient."

Does giving become pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient? Yes. Were not the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings? Yes. If the four pairs of persons, the eight individual persons, were declared by the Blessed One to be worthy of offerings, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Giving becomes pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient."

Does giving become pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient? Yes. Is it not that there are some who, having given a gift to a stream-enterer, succeed in their offering? Yes. If there are some who, having given a gift to a stream-enterer, succeed in their offering, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Giving becomes pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient."

Is it not that there are some who, having given a gift to a once-returner, etc. to a non-returner, etc. to a Worthy One, succeed in their offering? Yes. If there are some who, having given a gift to a Worthy One, succeed in their offering, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "Giving becomes pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient."

801. Does giving become pure on account of the recipient? Yes. Is one the doer for another, is pleasure and pain made by another, does one act and another experience? That should not be said. Etc.

Does giving become pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "Ānanda, there are these four purifications of offerings! What are the four? There is, Ānanda, an offering that becomes pure on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient; there is, Ānanda, an offering that becomes pure on account of the recipient, not on account of the donor; there is, Ānanda, an offering that becomes pure both on account of the donor and on account of the recipient; there is, Ānanda, an offering that becomes pure neither on account of the donor nor on account of the recipient. These, Ānanda, are the four purifications of offerings." Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, it should not be said - "Giving becomes pure only on account of the donor, not on account of the recipient."

The discussion on purification of offerings is finished.

Seventeenth Chapter.

Its summary:

There is accumulation of merit for a Worthy One, there is no untimely death for a Worthy One, all this is from action, only that which is bound by the senses is suffering, setting aside the noble path the remaining activities are suffering, the Community receives offerings, the Community purifies offerings, the Community eats drinks chews and tastes, what is given to the Community is of great fruit, there is giving for purification.