5.

The Fifth Chapter

(43) 1.

The Discussion on Liberation

418. Is knowledge of liberation liberated? Yes. Is whatever knowledge of liberation all that liberated? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation liberated? Yes. Is reviewing knowledge liberated? That should not be said. Etc.

Is knowledge of liberation liberated? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a change-of-lineage person liberated? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of stream-entry liberated? Yes. Is it the knowledge of a stream-enterer, the knowledge of one who has reached, attained, obtained, realized the fruition of stream-entry? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of once-returning liberated? Yes. Is it the knowledge of a once-returner, the knowledge of one who has reached, attained, obtained, realized the fruition of once-returning? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of non-returning liberated? Yes. Is it the knowledge of a non-returner, the knowledge of one who has reached, attained, obtained, realized the fruition of non-returning? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of arahantship liberated? Yes. Is it the knowledge of a Worthy One, the knowledge of one who has reached, attained, obtained, realized arahantship? That should not be said. Etc.

419. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of stream-entry liberated? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of stream-entry liberated? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of once-returning liberated? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of once-returning liberated? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of non-returning liberated? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of non-returning liberated? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of arahantship liberated? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of arahantship liberated? That should not be said. Etc.

420. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of stream-entry liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of stream-entry liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of once-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of once-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of non-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of non-returning liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of liberation of a person possessing the fruition of arahantship liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? Yes. Is knowledge of liberation of a person practising for the realisation of arahantship liberated, and is that the knowledge of one who has attained the fruition? That should not be said. Etc.

The Discussion on Liberation is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(44) 2.

Discussion on Knowledge of One Beyond Training

421. Is there knowledge of one beyond training for a learner? Yes. Does a learner know and see the state of one beyond training, having seen, understood, realized, enters and dwells, dwells having touched with the body? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not that a learner does not know and does not see the state of one beyond training, not seen, not understood, not realized, does not enter and dwell, does not dwell having touched with the body? Yes. If a learner does not know and does not see the state of one beyond training, not seen, not understood, not realized, does not enter and dwell, does not dwell having touched with the body, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is knowledge of one beyond training for a learner."

Is there knowledge of one beyond training for one beyond training, does one beyond training know and see the state of one beyond training, having seen, understood, realized, enters and dwells, dwells having touched with the body? Yes. Is there knowledge of one beyond training for a learner, does a learner know and see the state of one beyond training, having seen, understood, realized, enters and dwells, dwells having touched with the body? That should not be said. Etc.

422. Is there knowledge of one beyond training for a learner, does a learner not know and not see the state of one beyond training, not seen, not understood, not realized, does not enter and dwell, does not dwell having touched with the body? Yes. Is there knowledge of one beyond training for one beyond training, does one beyond training not know and not see the state of one beyond training, not seen, not understood, not realized, does not enter and dwell, does not dwell having touched with the body? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of one beyond training for a learner? Yes. Is there knowledge of the path of stream-entry for a change-of-lineage person? That should not be said. Etc. Is there knowledge of the fruition of stream-entry for a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of stream-entry? That should not be said. Etc. The fruition of once-returning... The fruition of non-returning... Is there knowledge of arahantship for a person practising for the realisation of arahantship? That should not be said. Etc.

423. Should it not be said - "There is knowledge of one beyond training for a learner"? Yes. Did not the Venerable Ānanda, a learner - know "The Blessed One is eminent," know "The Elder Sāriputta, the Elder Mahāmoggallāna is eminent"? Yes. If the Venerable Ānanda, a learner - knows "The Blessed One is eminent," knows "The Elder Sāriputta, the Elder Mahāmoggallāna is eminent," then indeed sir, it should be said - "There is knowledge of one beyond training for a learner."

The Discussion on Knowledge of One Beyond Training is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(45) 3.

Discussion on Reversal

424. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. Is it a perversion of regarding the impermanent as permanent? That should not be said. Etc. Regarding suffering as happiness, etc. Regarding non-self as self, etc. Is it a perversion of regarding the unattractive as attractive? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. Is it unwholesome? That should not be said. Etc. Is it not wholesome? Yes. If it is wholesome, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment."

Is the perversion of regarding the impermanent as permanent unwholesome? Yes. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment, and is that unwholesome? That should not be said. Etc. Regarding suffering as happiness, etc. Regarding non-self as self, etc. Is the perversion of regarding the unattractive as attractive unwholesome? Yes. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment, and is that unwholesome? That should not be said. Etc.

425. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment, and is that unwholesome? Yes. Is the perversion of regarding the impermanent as permanent wholesome? That should not be said. Etc. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment, and is that unwholesome? Yes. Regarding suffering as happiness, etc. Regarding non-self as self, etc. Is the perversion of regarding the unattractive as attractive wholesome? That should not be said. Etc.

426. Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. Would a Worthy One attain the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. If a Worthy One would attain the earth kasiṇa attainment, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment."

Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment, and would a Worthy One attain the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. Is there perversion for a Worthy One? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there perversion for a Worthy One? Yes. Is there perversion of perception, perversion of consciousness, perversion of view for a Worthy One? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there not perversion of perception, perversion of consciousness, perversion of view for a Worthy One? Yes. If there is not perversion of perception, perversion of consciousness, perversion of view for a Worthy One, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is perversion for a Worthy One."

427. Should it not be said - Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. Is everything earth for one attaining the earth kasiṇa attainment? That should not be said. If so, there is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment.

Is there perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment? Yes. Is there not earth, and is there anyone who attains earth as earth? Yes. If there is earth, and there is anyone who attains earth as earth, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment."

There is earth, and is it perverted for one attaining earth as earth? Yes. There is Nibbāna, and is it perverted for one attaining Nibbāna as Nibbāna? That should not be said. Etc. If so, it should not be said - "There is perverted knowledge for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment."

The Discussion on Reversal is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(46) 4.

Discussion on Fixed Course

428. Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Is there knowledge for one who is fixed in destination regarding going to the unfixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there no knowledge for one who is fixed in destination regarding going to the unfixed course? Yes. Is there no knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Is there knowledge for one who is fixed in destination regarding going to the fixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there no knowledge for one who is fixed in destination regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Is there no knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the unfixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there no knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the unfixed course? Yes. Is there no knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

429. Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Is there a fixed course for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Are there establishments of mindfulness for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course... right strivings... bases for spiritual power... faculties... powers... factors of enlightenment? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there no fixed course for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. If there is no fixed course for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course, then indeed it should not be said - "There is knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course."

Are there no establishments of mindfulness for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course... etc. factors of enlightenment? Yes. If there are no factors of enlightenment for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course, then indeed it should not be said - "There is knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course."

430. Is there knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course? Yes. Is there knowledge of the path of stream-entry for a change-of-lineage person? That should not be said. Etc. Is there knowledge of the fruition of stream-entry for a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of stream-entry? That should not be said, etc. Is there knowledge of arahantship for a person practising for the realisation of arahantship? That should not be said. Etc.

431. Should it not be said - "There is knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course"? Yes. Does not the Blessed One know - "This person will enter the fixed course of the right path, this person is capable of fully realising the teaching"? Yes. If the Blessed One knows - "This person will enter the fixed course of the right path, this person is capable of fully realising the teaching," then indeed sir, it should be said - "There is knowledge for one who is undetermined regarding going to the fixed course."

The Treatise on Fixed Course is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(47) 5.

Treatise on Analytical Knowledge

432. Is all knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Is conventional knowledge analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. Is conventional knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Do all those who know conventional designations, have they all attained analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. Is all knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Is knowledge of mind-reading analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. Is knowledge of mind-reading analytical knowledge? Yes. Do all those who know others' minds, have they all attained analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc.

Is all knowledge analytical knowledge? Yes. Is all wisdom analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. Is all wisdom analytical knowledge? Yes. For one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment there is wisdom; is that wisdom analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. The water kasiṇa, etc. the fire kasina, etc. the air kasina, etc. the blue kasina, etc. the yellow kasina, etc. the red kasina, etc. The white kasiṇa, etc. The plane of infinite space, etc. The plane of infinite consciousness, etc. The plane of nothingness, etc. For one who has attained the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, etc. For one giving a gift, etc. For one giving a robe, etc. For one giving almsfood, etc. For one giving lodging, etc. For one giving the requisite of medicines for the sick there is wisdom; is that wisdom analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc.

433. Should it not be said - "Is all knowledge analytical knowledge?" Yes. There is supramundane wisdom; is that wisdom not analytical knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. If so, all knowledge is analytical knowledge.

The Treatise on Analytical Knowledge is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(48) 6.

The Treatise on Conventional Knowledge

434. Should it not be said - "Conventional knowledge has only truth as object, not another object"? Yes. Is it not that for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment there is knowledge, and the earth kasiṇa is conventional truth? Yes. If for one who has attained the earth kasiṇa attainment there is knowledge, and the earth kasiṇa is conventional truth, then indeed sir, it should be said - "Conventional knowledge has only truth as object, not another object."

Should it not be said - "Conventional knowledge has only truth as object, not another object"? Yes. Etc. Is it not that the water kasiṇa, etc. the fire kasina, etc. For one giving the requisite of medicines for the sick there is knowledge, and the requisite of medicines for the sick is conventional truth? Yes. If for one giving the requisite of medicines for the sick there is knowledge, and the requisite of medicines for the sick is conventional truth, then indeed sir, it should be said - "Conventional knowledge has only truth as object, not another object."

435. "Conventional knowledge has only truth as object, not another object"? Yes. Does one fully understand suffering, abandon origin, realize cessation, develop the path by that knowledge? That should not be said. Etc.

The Treatise on Conventional Knowledge is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(49) 7.

The Treatise on Consciousness as Object

436. Is knowledge of mind-reading only mind as object, not another object? Yes. Is there not someone who understands a mind with lust as "a mind with lust"? Yes. If there is someone who understands a mind with lust as "a mind with lust", then indeed sir, it should not be said - "knowledge of mind-reading has only mind as object, not another object".

Is there not someone a mind without lust, etc. a mind with hate... a mind without hate... a mind with delusion... a mind without delusion... a contracted mind... a distracted mind... an exalted mind... a not exalted mind... a surpassed mind... an unsurpassed mind... a concentrated mind... an unconcentrated mind... a liberated mind, etc. understands an unliberated mind as "an unliberated mind"? Yes. If there is someone who understands an unliberated mind as "an unliberated mind", then indeed sir, it should not be said - "knowledge of mind-reading has only mind as object, not another object".

437. Should knowledge with contact as object be said to be "knowledge of mind-reading"? Yes. If knowledge with contact as object should be said to be knowledge of mind-reading, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "knowledge of mind-reading has only mind as object, not another object". Knowledge with feeling as object... etc. Knowledge with perception as object... Knowledge with volition as object... Knowledge with mind as object... Knowledge with faith as object... Knowledge with energy as object... Knowledge with mindfulness as object... Knowledge with concentration as object... Knowledge with wisdom as object... Knowledge with lust as object... Knowledge with hate as object... Knowledge with delusion as object... etc. Should knowledge with moral fearlessness as object be said to be "knowledge of mind-reading"? Yes. If knowledge with moral fearlessness as object should be said to be knowledge of mind-reading, then indeed sir, it should not be said - "knowledge of mind-reading has only mind as object, not another object".

Should knowledge with contact as object not be said to be "knowledge of mind-reading"? Yes. Is it knowledge of the method of contact? That should not be said. Etc. Knowledge with feeling as object... etc. Knowledge with perception as object... etc. Should knowledge with moral fearlessness as object not be said to be "knowledge of mind-reading"? Yes. Is it knowledge of the method of moral fearlessness? That should not be said. Etc.

438. Should it not be said - "knowledge of mind-reading has only mind as object, not another object"? Yes. Is it not knowledge of mind-reading? Yes. If it is knowledge of mind-reading, then indeed sir, it should be said - "knowledge of mind-reading has only mind as object, not another object".

The Treatise on Consciousness as Object is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(50) 8.

The Treatise on Knowledge of the Future

439. Is there knowledge of the future? Yes. Does one know the future from the root, know from the cause, know from the source, know from the origination, know from the production, know from the origin, know from the nutriment, know from the object, know from the condition, know from the arising? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of the future? Yes. Does one know the future's root conditionality, know the object conditionality, know the predominance conditionality, know the proximity conditionality, know the contiguity conditionality? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of the future? Yes. Is there knowledge of the path of stream-entry for a change-of-lineage person? That should not be said. Etc. Is there knowledge of the fruition of stream-entry for a person practising for the realisation of the fruition of stream-entry? That should not be said. Etc.

Once-returner, etc. A non-returner, etc. Is there knowledge of arahantship for a person practising for the realisation of arahantship? That should not be said. Etc.

440. Should it not be said - "Is there knowledge of the future"? Yes. Was it not said by the Blessed One - "For Pāṭaliputta, Ānanda, there will be three dangers - from fire or from water or from the breaking of alliance"! Is there such a discourse? Yes. If so, there is knowledge of the future.

The Treatise on Knowledge of the Future is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(51) 9.

The Treatise on the Present

441. Is there knowledge in the present? Yes. Does one know that knowledge by that knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. Does one know that knowledge by that knowledge? Yes. Does one know that knowledge as "knowledge" by that knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. Does one know that knowledge as "knowledge" by that knowledge? Yes. Is that knowledge the object of that knowledge? That should not be said. Etc.

Is that knowledge the object of that knowledge? Yes. Does one touch that contact by that contact, does one feel that feeling by that feeling, does one perceive that perception by that perception, does one intend that volition by that volition, does one think that consciousness by that consciousness, does one apply thought to that applied thought by that applied thought, does one sustain thought on that sustained thought by that sustained thought, does one hold dear that joy by that joy, does one remember that mindfulness by that mindfulness, does one understand that wisdom by that wisdom, does one cut that sword by that sword, does one plane that hatchet by that hatchet, does one plane that axe by that axe, does one plane that adze by that adze, does one sew that needle by that needle, does one touch that fingertip by that fingertip, does one touch that tip of the nose by that tip of the nose, does one touch that head by that head, does one wash that excrement by that excrement, does one wash that urine by that urine, does one wash that spittle by that spittle, does one wash that pus by that pus, does one wash that blood by that blood? That should not be said, etc.

442. Should it not be said - "There is knowledge in the present"? Yes. Is it not that when all activities are seen as impermanent, that knowledge too is seen as impermanent? Yes. If when all activities are seen as impermanent, that knowledge too is seen as impermanent, then indeed sir, it should be said - "There is knowledge in the present."

The Treatise on Knowledge of the Present is concluded.

5.

The Fifth Chapter

(52) 10.

The Treatise on Knowledge of Fruition

443. Is there knowledge of fruition for a disciple? Yes. Does a disciple declare what has been done regarding fruition? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of fruition for a disciple? Yes. Is there for a disciple discernment of higher and lower fruitions, discernment of higher and lower faculties, discernment of higher and lower persons? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of fruition for a disciple? Yes. Is there for a disciple the description of aggregates, the description of sense bases, the description of elements, the description of truths, the description of faculties, the description of persons? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of fruition for a disciple? Yes. Is a disciple a conqueror, a Teacher, a Fully Self-Enlightened One, omniscient, all-seeing, lord of the Teaching, one who has the Teaching as refuge? That should not be said. Etc.

Is there knowledge of fruition for a disciple? Yes. Is a disciple the producer of the unarisen path, the generator of the unproduced path, the declarer of the undeclared path, the knower of the path, the expert in the path, skilled in the path? That should not be said. Etc.

444. Should it not be said - "Is there knowledge of fruition for a disciple"? Yes. Is a disciple without knowledge? That should not be said. Etc. If so, there is knowledge of fruition for a disciple. Etc.

The Treatise on Knowledge of Fruition is concluded.

The Fifth Chapter.

Its summary:

Knowledge of liberation, liberated, knowledge of one beyond training for a learner, perverted knowledge, there is knowledge for one undetermined regarding going to the fixed course, all knowledge is analytical knowledge, conventional knowledge, knowledge of mind-reading, knowledge of the future, knowledge of the present, knowledge of fruition for a disciple.

The Great Fifty.

Its summary too:

Finding of beings, one who brings, power, a Worthy One who is a layman, and liberation as the fifth.