10.

The Discourse to Pāyāsi

406. Thus have I heard - On one occasion the Venerable Kumārakassapa was wandering on a journey among the Kosalans together with a large Community of monks, about five hundred monks, and arrived at a city of the Kosalans named Setabyā. There the Venerable Kumārakassapa stayed at Setabyā, to the north of Setabyā, in a siṃsapā grove. Now at that time the chieftain Pāyāsi was dwelling at Setabyā, a place teeming with beings, with grass, wood and water, with grain, a royal domain, given by King Pasenadi of Kosala as a royal gift, a royal grant.

The Story of Prince Pāyāsi

407. Now at that time such an evil wrong view had arisen in the prince Pāyāsi: "Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions." The brahmins and householders of Setabyā heard: "Indeed, sirs, the ascetic Kumārakassapa, a disciple of the ascetic Gotama, wandering on a journey among the Kosalans together with a large Community of monks, about five hundred monks, has arrived at Setabyā and is staying at Setabyā, to the north of Setabyā, in a siṃsapā grove. And concerning that venerable Kumārakassapa, such a good reputation has arisen: 'He is wise, experienced, intelligent, very learned, a brilliant speaker, of good discernment, and both senior and a Worthy One. Good indeed is the seeing of such Worthy Ones.'" Then the brahmins and householders of Setabyā, having gone out from Setabyā, in groups and crowds, facing northward, went towards the siṃsapā grove.

408. Now at that time the chieftain Pāyāsi had gone to the upper storey of his mansion for a midday rest. The chieftain Pāyāsi saw the brahmins and householders of Setabyā, having gone out from Setabyā, in groups and crowds, facing northward, going towards the siṃsapā grove, and having seen this, he addressed his attendant - "Why, my dear attendant, are the brahmins and householders of Setabyā, having gone out from Setabyā, in groups and crowds, facing northward, going towards the siṃsapā grove?"

"There is, sir, the ascetic Kumārakassapa, a disciple of the ascetic Gotama, wandering on a journey among the Kosalans together with a large Community of monks, about five hundred monks, has arrived at Setabyā and is staying at Setabyā, to the north of Setabyā, in a siṃsapā grove. And concerning that venerable Kumārakassapa, such a good reputation has arisen: 'He is wise, experienced, intelligent, very learned, a brilliant speaker, of good discernment, and both senior and a Worthy One.' They are approaching to see that venerable Kumārakassapa." "If so, my dear attendant, go to where the brahmins and householders of Setabyā are; having approached, say this to the brahmins and householders of Setabyā - 'The chieftain Pāyāsi, sirs, says this - Let the venerable sirs wait, the chieftain Pāyāsi too will approach the ascetic Kumārakassapa for an audience.' Before the ascetic Kumārakassapa convinces the brahmins and householders of Setabyā, who are foolish and inexperienced - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.' For there is not, my dear attendant, another world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions." "Yes, sir," the attendant replied to the chieftain Pāyāsi, and approached the brahmins and householders of Setabyā; having approached, he said this to the brahmins and householders of Setabyā - "The chieftain Pāyāsi, sirs, says this: Let the venerable sirs wait, the chieftain Pāyāsi too will approach the ascetic Kumārakassapa for an audience."

409. Then the chieftain Pāyāsi, surrounded by the brahmins and householders of Setabyā, approached the siṃsapā grove, approached the Venerable Kumārakassapa; having approached, he exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Kumārakassapa, and having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, he sat down to one side. The brahmins and householders of Setabyā too, some having paid respect to the Venerable Kumārakassapa, sat down to one side; some exchanged friendly greetings with the Venerable Kumārakassapa; having concluded the pleasant and memorable talk, they sat down to one side. Some, having extended joined palms in salutation towards the Venerable Kumārakassapa, sat down to one side. Some, having announced their name and clan, sat down to one side. Some, remaining silent, sat down to one side.

The Doctrine of Nihilism

410. Seated to one side, the chieftain Pāyāsi said this to the Venerable Kumārakassapa - "For I, friend Kassapa, am one who speaks thus, one who holds this view - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "I, chieftain, have never seen or heard of one who speaks thus, one who holds this view. How indeed could one say thus - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions'?

The Simile of the Moon and Sun

411. "If so, chieftain, I will ask you a question about this very matter. As it pleases you, so you should answer it. What do you think, chieftain, are these moon and sun in this world or in another world, are they gods or are they humans?" "These moon and sun, friend Kassapa, are in another world, not in this one; they are gods, not humans." "By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions."

412. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method by which method it is thus for you - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions'?" "There is, friend Kassapa, a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations are killers of living beings, takers of what is not given, those who engage in wrong conduct regarding sensual pleasures, speakers of falsehood, speakers of divisive speech, speakers of harsh speech, speakers of frivolous talk, covetous, with minds of ill-will, holding wrong views. At a later time they become sick, afflicted, severely ill. When I know - 'Now they will not recover from this illness' - having approached them, I speak thus - 'There are, sirs, some ascetics and brahmins who hold such views and such opinions - Those who are killers of living beings, takers of what is not given, those who engage in wrong conduct regarding sensual pleasures, speakers of falsehood, speakers of divisive speech, speakers of harsh speech, speakers of frivolous talk, covetous, with minds of ill-will, holding wrong views, upon the body's collapse at death, are reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell. You, sirs, are killers of living beings, takers of what is not given, those who engage in wrong conduct regarding sensual pleasures, speakers of falsehood, speakers of divisive speech, speakers of harsh speech, speakers of frivolous talk, covetous, with minds of ill-will, holding wrong views. If the words of those venerable ascetics and brahmins are true, you, sirs, upon the body's collapse at death, will be reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell. If, sirs, upon the body's collapse at death, you are reborn in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell, having come, inform me - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.' You, sirs, are trustworthy and reliable to me; what you have seen will be just as if seen by myself.' Having promised me 'Good,' they neither come and inform me, nor do they send a messenger. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Thief

413. "If so, chieftain, I will ask you a question about this very matter. As it pleases you, so you should answer it. What do you think, chieftain, suppose here your men were to seize a thief, a criminal, and show him to you - 'This, venerable sir, is a thief, a criminal; impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' You would say thus to them - 'If so, sirs, having bound this man with his hands tied behind his back with a strong rope, tightly bound, having shaved his head, having led him from road to road, from crossroads to crossroads with a harsh-sounding drum, having departed by the southern gate, to the south of the city at the place of execution, cut off his head.' They, having replied 'Good,' having bound that man with his hands tied behind his back with a strong rope, tightly bound, having shaved his head, having led him from road to road, from crossroads to crossroads with a harsh-sounding drum, having departed by the southern gate, to the south of the city at the place of execution, would make him sit down. Would that thief obtain from the executioners - 'Let the venerable executioners wait, in such and such a village or town of mine there are friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations, until I go and entrust my affairs to them and return' - or would the executioners cut off his head while he is wailing?" "Indeed, friend Kassapa, that thief would not obtain from the executioners - 'Let the venerable executioners wait, in such and such a village or town of mine there are friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations, until I go and entrust my affairs to them and return.' Rather, the executioners would cut off his head while he is wailing." "If indeed, chieftain, that thief, a human being, will not obtain from executioners who are human beings - 'Let the venerable executioners wait, in such and such a village or town of mine there are friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations, until I go and entrust my affairs to them and return.' How then will your friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations who are killers of living beings, takers of what is not given, those who engage in wrong conduct regarding sensual pleasures, speakers of falsehood, speakers of divisive speech, speakers of harsh speech, speakers of frivolous talk, covetous, with minds of ill-will, holding wrong views, upon the body's collapse at death, having arisen in a realm of misery, an unfortunate realm, a nether world, in hell, obtain from the guardians of hell - 'Let the venerable guardians of hell wait, until we go and inform the chieftain Pāyāsi - "Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions"'? By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

414. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method by which method it is thus for you - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions'?" "There is, friend Kassapa, a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from divisive speech, abstain from harsh speech, abstain from idle chatter, are non-covetous, with minds without ill-will, holding right view. At a later time they become sick, afflicted, severely ill. When I know - 'Now they will not recover from this illness' - having approached them, I speak thus - 'There are, sirs, some ascetics and brahmins who hold such views and such opinions - Those who abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from divisive speech, abstain from harsh speech, abstain from idle chatter, are non-covetous, with minds without ill-will, holding right view, upon the body's collapse at death, are reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world. You, sirs, abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from divisive speech, abstain from harsh speech, abstain from idle chatter, are non-covetous, with minds without ill-will, holding right view. If the words of those venerable ascetics and brahmins are true, you, sirs, upon the body's collapse at death, will be reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world. If, sirs, upon the body's collapse at death, you are reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, having come, inform me - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.' You, sirs, are trustworthy and reliable to me; what you have seen will be just as if seen by myself.' Having promised me 'Good,' they neither come and inform me, nor do they send a messenger. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Man in the Cesspit

415. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Just as, chieftain, a man might be submerged up to his head in a pit of excrement. Then you might command your men - 'If so, friends, pull that man out of that pit of excrement.' They, having replied 'Good,' would pull that man out of that pit of excrement. You would say thus to them - 'If so, friends, scrape the excrement well from that man's body with bamboo scrapers.' They, having replied 'Good,' would scrape the excrement well from that man's body with bamboo scrapers. You would say thus to them - 'If so, friends, rub that man's body well three times with pale clay.' They would rub that man's body well three times with pale clay. You would say thus to them - 'If so, friends, having anointed that man with oil, wash him well three times with fine bath powder.' They, having anointed that man with oil, would wash him well three times with fine bath powder. You would say thus to them - 'If so, friends, trim that man's hair and beard.' They would trim that man's hair and beard. You would say thus to them - 'If so, friends, bring for that man a costly garland, costly ointment, and costly garments.' They would bring for that man a costly garland, costly ointment, and costly garments. You would say thus to them - 'If so, friends, having taken that man up to the mansion, provide him with the five types of sensual pleasure.' They, having taken that man up to the mansion, would provide him with the five types of sensual pleasure.

"What do you think, chieftain, would that man, well-bathed, well-anointed, with well-trimmed hair and beard, adorned with garlands and ornaments, dressed in white garments, having gone up to the upper terrace of the excellent mansion, endowed and furnished with the five types of sensual pleasure, being attended to, have any desire to plunge again into that pit of excrement?" "No indeed, friend Kassapa." "What is the reason for this?" "Impure, friend Kassapa, is the pit of excrement, impure and reckoned as impure, foul-smelling and reckoned as foul-smelling, loathsome and reckoned as loathsome, repulsive and reckoned as repulsive." "Just so, chieftain, human beings are impure to the gods and reckoned as impure, foul-smelling and reckoned as foul-smelling, loathsome and reckoned as loathsome, repulsive and reckoned as repulsive. The smell of humans, chieftain, offends the gods for a hundred yojanas. So how could your friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations, who abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from divisive speech, abstain from harsh speech, abstain from idle chatter, who are non-covetous, with minds without ill-will, holding right view, upon the body's collapse at death, having been reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, come and announce to you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions'? By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

416. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method... etc. "There is, friend Kassapa, a method... etc. "In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from spirits, liquor and intoxicants that cause negligence. At a later time they become sick, afflicted, severely ill. When I know - 'Now they will not recover from this illness' - having approached them, I speak thus - 'There are, sirs, some ascetics and brahmins who hold such views and such opinions - Those who abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from spirits, liquor and intoxicants that cause negligence, upon the body's collapse at death, are reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the gods of the Thirty-three. You, sirs, abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from spirits, liquor and intoxicants that cause negligence. If the words of those venerable ascetics and brahmins are true, you, sirs, upon the body's collapse at death, will be reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the gods of the Thirty-three. If, sirs, upon the body's collapse at death, you are reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the gods of the Thirty-three, having come, inform me - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.' You, sirs, are trustworthy and reliable to me; what you have seen will be just as if seen by myself.' Having promised me 'Good,' they neither come and inform me, nor do they send a messenger. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Thirty-three Gods

417. "If so, chieftain, I will ask you a question about this very matter; as it pleases you, so you should answer it. Now, chieftain, a human hundred years is one day and night for the gods of the Thirty-three, by that night thirty nights make a month, by that month twelve months make a year, by that year a divine thousand years is the life-span of the gods of the Thirty-three. Those friends and colleagues, relatives and blood-relations of yours who abstain from killing living beings, abstain from taking what is not given, abstain from sexual misconduct, abstain from lying, abstain from spirits, liquor and intoxicants that cause negligence, upon the body's collapse at death, are reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the gods of the Thirty-three. If then it should occur to them thus - 'Until we have indulged ourselves for two or three days and nights, endowed and furnished with the five types of divine sensual pleasure, then we will go and inform the chieftain Pāyāsi - "Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions."' Would they come and inform you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions'?" "No indeed, friend Kassapa. For we, friend Kassapa, would have long been dead. But who informs the venerable Kassapa - 'There are gods of the Thirty-three' or 'The gods of the Thirty-three are thus long-lived'? We do not believe the venerable Kassapa - 'There are gods of the Thirty-three' or 'The gods of the Thirty-three are thus long-lived.'"

The Simile of the One Blind from Birth

418. "Just as, chieftain, a man blind from birth would not see black and white forms, would not see blue forms, would not see yellow forms, would not see red forms, would not see crimson forms, would not see what is even and uneven, would not see the stars, would not see the moon and sun. He might speak thus - 'There are no black and white forms, there is no one who sees black and white forms. There are no blue forms, there is no one who sees blue forms. There are no yellow forms, there is no one who sees yellow forms. There are no red forms, there is no one who sees red forms. There are no crimson forms, there is no one who sees crimson forms. There is no even and uneven, there is no one who sees what is even and uneven. There are no stars, there is no one who sees the stars. There is no moon and sun, there is no one who sees the moon and sun. I do not know this, I do not see this, therefore it does not exist.' Would he, chieftain, speaking thus, speak rightly?" "No indeed, friend Kassapa. There are black and white forms, there is one who sees black and white forms. There are blue forms, there is one who sees blue forms... etc. there is what is even and uneven, there is one who sees what is even and uneven. There are the stars, there is one who sees the stars. There is the moon and sun, there is one who sees the moon and sun. 'I do not know this, I do not see this, therefore it does not exist.' Indeed, friend Kassapa, he would not be speaking rightly." "Just so, chieftain, methinks you appear like one blind from birth when you speak to me thus."

"But who informs the venerable Kassapa - 'There are gods of the Thirty-three' or 'The gods of the Thirty-three are thus long-lived'? We do not believe the venerable Kassapa - 'There are gods of the Thirty-three' or 'The gods of the Thirty-three are thus long-lived.'" "Indeed, chieftain, the other world is not to be seen in the way you think, with this physical eye. Those ascetics and brahmins, chieftain, who resort to remote forest and woodland lodgings, dwelling there diligent, ardent, and resolute, purify the divine eye. They, with the divine eye, which is pure and surpasses the human, see both this world and the other world, and spontaneously reborn beings. Thus indeed, chieftain, the other world is to be seen; not in the way you think, with this physical eye. By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

419. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method... etc. "There is, friend Kassapa, a method... etc. "In what way, chieftain?" "Here I, friend Kassapa, see ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, desiring to live, not desiring to die, desiring happiness, averse to suffering. This occurs to me, friend Kassapa: If these venerable ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, were to know thus - 'It will be better for us after death.' Now these venerable ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, would eat poison, or bring a knife, or having hanged themselves would die, or would throw themselves off a precipice. But because these venerable ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, do not know thus - 'It will be better for us after death,' therefore these venerable ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, desiring to live, not desiring to die, desiring happiness, averse to suffering, do not kill themselves. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Pregnant Woman

420. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, a certain brahmin had two wives. One had a son about ten or twelve years old, the other was pregnant and near to giving birth. Then that brahmin died. Then that young man said this to his stepmother - 'Whatever wealth or grain or silver or gold there is here, madam, all that is mine; there is nothing here for you. Hand over to me, madam, my father's inheritance.' When this was said, that brahmin woman said this to that young man - 'Wait, dear, until I give birth. If it will be a boy, a portion will be his too; if it will be a girl, she will be your servant.' For the second time that young man said this to his stepmother - 'Whatever wealth or grain or silver or gold there is here, madam, all that is mine; there is nothing here for you. Hand over to me, madam, my father's inheritance.' For the second time that brahmin woman said this to that young man - 'Wait, dear, until I give birth. If it will be a boy, a portion will be his too; if it will be a girl, she will be your servant.' For the third time that young man said this to his stepmother - 'Whatever wealth or grain or silver or gold there is here, madam, all that is mine; there is nothing here for you. Hand over to me, madam, my father's inheritance.'

"Then that brahmin woman, having taken a knife, having entered an inner room, cut open her belly - 'Until I give birth, whether a boy or a girl.' She destroyed herself, her life, the embryo, and the property. Just as that foolish, inexperienced woman, having fallen into calamity and disaster, unwisely seeking the inheritance, just so you, chieftain, foolish and inexperienced, will fall into calamity and disaster, unwisely seeking the other world; just as that brahmin woman, foolish and inexperienced, having fallen into calamity and disaster, unwisely seeking the inheritance. Indeed, chieftain, ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, do not ripen what is unripe; but they wait for the ripening. For wise men, chieftain, have need of the life of ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character. In whatever way, chieftain, ascetics and brahmins who are virtuous, of good character, remain for a long time, for a long duration, in that way they generate much merit, and they proceed for the welfare of many people, for the happiness of many people, out of compassion for the world, for the good, welfare, and happiness of gods and humans. By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

421. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method... etc. "There is, friend Kassapa, a method... etc. "In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my men seize a thief, a criminal, and show him to me - 'This, venerable sir, is a thief, a criminal; impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' Then I speak thus - 'If so, sirs, having put this man while still alive into a pot, having closed the mouth, having wrapped it with wet leather, having made a thick coating with wet clay, having placed it on an oven, light a fire.' Having promised me 'Good,' they put that man while still alive into a pot, having closed the mouth, having wrapped it with wet leather, having made a thick coating with wet clay, having placed it on an oven, they light a fire. When we know 'That man has died,' then having taken down that pot, having broken it open, having opened the mouth, we carefully look - 'Perhaps we might see his soul departing.' Yet we do not see his soul departing. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Dream

422. "If so, chieftain, I will ask you a question about this very matter. As it pleases you, so you should answer it. Do you recall, chieftain, having gone for a midday rest and having seen a dream of a pleasant park, a pleasant forest, pleasant ground, a pleasant pond?" "I do recall, friend Kassapa, having gone for a midday rest and having seen a dream of a pleasant park, a pleasant forest, pleasant ground, a pleasant pond." "Do hunchbacks, dwarfs, playful girls, and young maidens guard you at that time?" "Yes, friend Kassapa, hunchbacks, dwarfs, playful girls, and young maidens guard me at that time." "Do they see your soul entering or departing?" "No indeed, friend Kassapa." "If indeed, chieftain, those living women of yours while you are living will not see your soul entering or departing, how then will you see the soul of one who has died entering or departing? By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

423. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method... etc. "There is, friend Kassapa, a method... etc. In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my men seize a thief, a criminal, and show him to me - 'This, venerable sir, is a thief, a criminal; impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' Then I speak thus - 'If so, sirs, having weighed this man while still alive on a scale, having killed him by strangling with a bowstring, weigh him again on a scale.' Having promised me 'Good,' they weigh that man while still alive on a scale, having killed him by strangling with a bowstring, they weigh him again on a scale. When he is alive, he is lighter and softer and more workable. But when he is deceased, he is heavier and stiffer and less workable. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Heated Iron Ball

424. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Just as, chieftain, a man might weigh on a scale an iron ball heated all day, blazing, in flames, aglow. At a later time he might weigh it on a scale when it is cool and quenched. When is that iron ball lighter or softer or more workable - when it is blazing, in flames, aglow, or when it is cool and quenched?" "When, friend Kassapa, that iron ball is accompanied by heat and accompanied by air, blazing, in flames, aglow, then it is lighter and softer and more workable. But when that iron ball is neither accompanied by heat nor accompanied by air, cool and quenched, then it is heavier and stiffer and less workable." "Just so, chieftain, when this body is accompanied by life and accompanied by heat and accompanied by consciousness, then it is lighter and softer and more workable. But when this body is neither accompanied by life nor accompanied by heat nor accompanied by consciousness, then it is heavier and stiffer and less workable. By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

425. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method... etc. "There is, friend Kassapa, a method... etc. In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my men seize a thief, a criminal, and show him to me - 'This, venerable sir, is a thief, a criminal; impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' Then I speak thus - 'If so, sirs, deprive this man of life without damaging his outer skin, his hide, his flesh, his sinews, his bones, and his bone marrow; perhaps we might see his soul departing.' Having promised me 'Good,' they deprive that man of life without damaging his outer skin... etc. They deprive him of life. When he is half-dead, then I speak thus - 'If so, sirs, lay this man on his back; perhaps we might see his soul departing.' They lay that man on his back. Yet we do not see his soul departing. Then I speak thus - 'If so, sirs, lay this man face down... lay him on his side... lay him on his other side... set him upright... set him upside down... beat him with the hand... beat him with a clod... beat him with a stick... beat him with a knife... shake him from below, shake him from above, shake him all around; perhaps we might see his soul departing.' They shake that man from below, shake him from above, shake him all around. Yet we do not see his soul departing. He has that same eye and those forms, yet he does not experience that sense base. He has that same ear and those sounds, yet he does not experience that sense base. He has that same nose and those odours, yet he does not experience that sense base. He has that same tongue and those flavours, yet he does not experience that sense base. He has that same body and those tangible objects, yet he does not experience that sense base. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Conch Blower

426. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, a certain conch-blower, having taken a conch, went to a border district. He approached a certain village; having approached, standing in the middle of the village, having blown the conch three times, he laid the conch down on the ground and sat down to one side. Then, chieftain, this occurred to those people of the border districts: 'Hey, whose is this sound so enticing, so lovely, so intoxicating, so captivating, so infatuating?' Having assembled, they said this to that conch-blower: 'Hey, whose is this sound so enticing, so lovely, so intoxicating, so captivating, so infatuating?' 'This, sirs, is called a conch, whose sound is so enticing, so lovely, so intoxicating, so captivating, so infatuating.' They laid that conch on its back: 'Speak, dear conch, speak, dear conch!' But that conch made no sound. They laid that conch face down, laid it on one side, laid it on the other side, set it upright, set it upside down, struck it with the hand, struck it with a clod, struck it with a stick, struck it with a knife, shook it, tossed it, rattled it: 'Speak, dear conch, speak, dear conch!' But that conch made no sound.

Then, chieftain, this occurred to that conch-blower: 'How foolish are these people of the border districts, that they should unwisely seek the sound of the conch!' While they were watching, having taken the conch, having blown the conch three times, he departed taking the conch with him. Then, chieftain, this occurred to those people of the border districts: 'So it seems, sirs, when this thing called a conch is accompanied by a person and accompanied by effort and accompanied by wind, then this conch makes a sound; but when this conch is neither accompanied by a person nor accompanied by effort nor accompanied by wind, this conch does not make a sound.' Just so, chieftain, when this body is accompanied by life and accompanied by heat and accompanied by consciousness, then it walks forward and walks back and stands and sits and lies down, and with the eye it sees forms, and with the ear it hears sounds, and with the nose it smells odours, and with the tongue it tastes flavours, and with the body it touches tangible objects, and with the mind it cognizes mental phenomena. But when this body is neither accompanied by life, nor accompanied by heat, nor accompanied by consciousness, then it neither walks forward nor walks back nor stands nor sits nor lies down, and with the eye it does not see forms, and with the ear it does not hear sounds, and with the nose it does not smell odours, and with the tongue it does not taste flavours, and with the body it does not touch tangible objects, and with the mind it does not cognize mental phenomena. By this method too, chieftain, let it be thus for you - 'Thus there is another world, there are spontaneously reborn beings, there is result and consequence of good and bad actions.'

427. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet this is how it is for me here - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'" "But is there, chieftain, a method... etc. "There is, friend Kassapa, a method... etc. In what way, chieftain?" "Here, friend Kassapa, my men seize a thief, a criminal, and show him to me - 'This, venerable sir, is a thief, a criminal; impose on him whatever punishment you wish.' Then I speak thus - 'If so, friends, cut off this man's skin, perhaps we might see his soul.' They cut off that man's skin. Yet we do not see his soul. Then I speak thus - 'If so, friends, cut off this man's hide, cut off his flesh, cut off his sinews, cut off his bones, cut off his bone marrow, perhaps we might see his soul.' They cut off that man's bone marrow, yet we do not see his soul. This too, friend Kassapa, is a method by which method it is thus for me - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.'"

The Simile of the Fire-worshipping Matted-hair Ascetic

428. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, a certain fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic dwelt in a leaf hut in a forest haunt. Then, chieftain, a certain caravan set out in the country. Then that caravan, having stayed one night near the hermitage of that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic, departed. Then, chieftain, this occurred to that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic: 'What if I were to approach where that caravan encampment was; perhaps I might find some useful thing there.' Then that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic, having risen early in the morning, approached where that caravan encampment was; having approached, he saw in that caravan encampment a young infant boy, helpless, lying on his back, abandoned. Having seen him, this occurred to him: 'It is not proper for me that a human being should die while I am looking on; what if I were to take this child to the hermitage and nurse him, nourish him, and raise him.' Then that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic, having taken that child to the hermitage, nursed him, nourished him, and raised him. When that child was about ten or twelve years old, then some business arose for that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic in the country. Then that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic said this to that child: 'I wish, dear, to go to the country; you should tend the fire, dear. And do not let the fire go out. But if the fire should go out, here is an axe, here are sticks, here is the fire-drill; having produced fire, you should tend the fire.' Then that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic, having thus instructed that child, went to the country. While he was absorbed in play, the fire went out.

Then this occurred to that child: 'My father said this to me: "You should tend the fire, dear. And do not let the fire go out. But if the fire should go out, here is an axe, here are sticks, here is the fire-drill; having produced fire, you should tend the fire." What if I were to produce fire and tend the fire.' Then that child planed the fire-drill with the axe, thinking: 'Perhaps I might obtain fire.' But he did not obtain fire. He split the fire-drill in two, split it in three, split it in four, split it in five, split it in ten, split it in a hundred, made it into splinters, and having made it into splinters, pounded it in a mortar, and having pounded it in a mortar, winnowed it in a strong wind, thinking: 'Perhaps I might obtain fire.' But he did not obtain fire.

Then that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic, having finished that business in the country, approached his own hermitage; having approached, he said this to that child: 'I hope, dear, the fire has not gone out?' 'Here, dear, while I was absorbed in play, the fire went out. Then this occurred to me: "My father said this to me: 'You should tend the fire, dear. And do not let the fire go out, dear. But if the fire should go out, here is an axe, here are sticks, here is the fire-drill; having produced fire, you should tend the fire.' What if I were to produce fire and tend the fire." Then, dear, I planed the fire-drill with the axe, thinking: "Perhaps I might obtain fire." But I did not obtain fire. I split the fire-drill in two, split it in three, split it in four, split it in five, split it in ten, split it in a hundred, made it into splinters, and having made it into splinters, pounded it in a mortar, and having pounded it in a mortar, winnowed it in a strong wind, thinking: "Perhaps I might obtain fire." But I did not obtain fire.' Then this occurred to that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic: 'How foolish and inexperienced is this child, that he should unwisely seek fire!' While he was looking on, having taken the fire-drill, having produced fire, he said this to that child: 'Thus, dear, fire is to be produced. Not in the way that you, foolish and inexperienced, unwisely sought fire.' Just so you, chieftain, foolish and inexperienced, will unwisely seek the other world. Give up this evil wrong view, chieftain, give up this evil wrong view, chieftain, lest it be for your harm and suffering for a long time."

429. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet I am not able to give up this evil wrong view. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows me, and kings in other lands too - 'The chieftain Pāyāsi is one who speaks thus, one who holds this view - "Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions." If I, friend Kassapa, were to give up this evil wrong view, there would be those who would say of me - 'How foolish is the chieftain Pāyāsi, inexperienced, one who holds to misapprehension.' Out of irritation I will hold on to it, out of contempt I will hold on to it, out of insolence I will hold on to it."

The Simile of the Two Caravan Leaders

430. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, a great cart caravan of a thousand carts went from an eastern country to a western country. Wherever it went, it quickly consumed the grass, wood, water, and green vegetation. Now in that caravan there were two caravan leaders, one of five hundred carts, one of five hundred carts. Then this occurred to those caravan leaders: 'This great cart caravan is of a thousand carts; wherever we go, it quickly consumes the grass, wood, water, and green vegetation. What if we were to divide this caravan in two - five hundred carts on one side, five hundred carts on one side.' They divided that caravan in two, five hundred carts on one side, five hundred carts on one side. One caravan leader, having loaded up much grass and wood and water, set the caravan on its way. After two or three days of travel, that caravan saw a man, dark, with red eyes, with a strung quiver, wearing a garland of white lotuses, with wet clothes, with wet hair, coming along the opposite road in a fine chariot with mud-smeared wheels. Having seen him, he said this: 'From where, friend, are you coming?' 'From such and such a country.' 'Where will you go?' 'To such and such a country.' 'Has, friend, a great rain cloud poured down ahead in the wilderness?' 'Yes, friend, a great rain cloud has poured down ahead in the wilderness; the roads are flooded with water, there is much grass and wood and water. Throw away, friends, the old grass, wood, and water; go quickly, quickly with lightly loaded carts; do not tire out the draught animals.'

Then that caravan leader addressed the caravan members: 'This man, friends, says thus: "A great rain cloud has poured down ahead in the wilderness; the roads are flooded with water, there is much grass and wood and water. Throw away, friends, the old grass, wood, and water; go quickly, quickly with lightly loaded carts; do not tire out the draught animals." Throw away, friends, the old grass, wood, and water; set the caravan on its way with lightly loaded carts.' 'Yes, sir,' those caravan members, having assented to that caravan leader, having thrown away the old grass, wood, and water, set the caravan on its way with lightly loaded carts. At the first caravan encampment too they did not see grass or wood or water. At the second caravan encampment too... at the third caravan encampment too... at the fourth caravan encampment too... at the fifth caravan encampment too... at the sixth caravan encampment too... at the seventh caravan encampment too they did not see grass or wood or water. All of them fell into calamity and disaster. Whatever humans or animals were in that caravan, that demon, that non-human, devoured them all. Only the bones remained.

When the second caravan leader knew: 'That caravan has now long departed,' having loaded up much grass and wood and water, he set the caravan on its way. After two or three days of travel, that caravan saw a man, dark, with red eyes, with a strung quiver, wearing a garland of white lotuses, with wet clothes, with wet hair, coming along the opposite road in a fine chariot with mud-smeared wheels. Having seen him, he said this: 'From where, friend, are you coming?' 'From such and such a country.' 'Where will you go?' 'To such and such a country.' 'Has, friend, a great rain cloud poured down ahead in the wilderness?' 'Yes, friend, a great rain cloud has poured down ahead in the wilderness. The roads are flooded with water, there is much grass and wood and water. Throw away, friends, the old grass, wood, and water; go quickly, quickly with lightly loaded carts; do not tire out the draught animals.'

Then that caravan leader addressed the caravan members: 'This man, friend, says thus - ahead in the wilderness a great shower has rained down, the roads are flooded with water, there is much grass and wood and water. Throw away, friends, the old grass, wood, and water, go quickly, quickly with lightly loaded carts; do not let the draught animals be wearied.' This man, friend, is neither our friend nor a blood relative, how shall we go on the faith of this one? You should not throw away the old grass, wood, and water, proceed with the caravan with the goods as they were carried. We shall not throw away the old.' 'Yes, sir,' those caravan members replied to that caravan leader and proceeded with the caravan with the goods as they were carried. At the first caravan encampment too they did not see grass or wood or water. At the second caravan encampment too... at the third caravan encampment too... at the fourth caravan encampment too... at the fifth caravan encampment too... at the sixth caravan encampment too... at the seventh caravan encampment too they did not see grass or wood or water. And they saw that caravan fallen into calamity and disaster. And whatever humans or animals were in that caravan, they saw only the bones of those who had been devoured by that demon, that non-human being.

Then that caravan leader addressed the caravan members: 'This caravan, friends, has fallen into calamity and disaster, as is natural with that foolish caravan leader as guide. If so, friends, whatever goods of little value are in our caravan, having thrown those away, take whatever goods of great value are in this caravan.' 'Yes, sir,' those caravan members replied to that caravan leader, and having thrown away whatever goods of little value were in their own caravan, having taken whatever goods of great value were in that caravan, they safely crossed over that wilderness, as is natural with a wise caravan leader as guide. Just so, chieftain, you, foolish and inexperienced, will fall into calamity and disaster, unwisely seeking the other world, just like that former caravan leader. And those who will think you worth listening to and believing, they too will fall into calamity and disaster, just like those caravan members. Give up this evil wrong view, chieftain; give up this evil wrong view, chieftain. Lest it be for your harm and suffering for a long time."

431. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet I am not able to give up this evil wrong view. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows me, and kings in other lands too - 'The chieftain Pāyāsi is one who speaks thus, one who holds this view - "Thus there is no other world... etc. result."' If I, friend Kassapa, were to give up this evil wrong view, there would be those who would say of me - 'How foolish is the chieftain Pāyāsi, inexperienced, one who holds to misapprehension.' Out of irritation I will hold on to it, out of contempt I will hold on to it, out of insolence I will hold on to it."

The Simile of the Dung Carrier

432. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, a certain pig-keeper went from his own village to another village. There he saw abundant dry dung discarded. Having seen him, this occurred to him: 'This abundant dry dung has been discarded, and it is food for my pigs; what if I were to carry away this dry dung from here.' He spread out his upper robe, heaped up abundant dry dung, tied it into a bundle, lifted it onto his head, and went. On the way, a great untimely rain cloud poured down on him. He went on carrying the load of dung, dripping and oozing, smeared with dung up to his fingernails. People, having seen him, said thus: 'Are you not mad, my good man, are you not out of your mind? How indeed can you carry a load of dung, dripping and oozing, smeared with dung up to your fingernails?' 'You indeed are mad, my good men, you are out of your minds, for this is food for my pigs.' Just so, chieftain, methinks you appear like a dung-carrier. Give up this evil wrong view, chieftain. Give up this evil wrong view, chieftain. Lest it be for your harm and suffering for a long time."

433. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet I am not able to give up this evil wrong view. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows me, and kings in other lands too - 'The chieftain Pāyāsi is one who speaks thus, one who holds this view - "Thus there is no other world... etc. result."' If I, friend Kassapa, were to give up this evil wrong view, there would be those who would say of me - 'How foolish is the chieftain Pāyāsi, inexperienced, one who holds to misapprehension.' Out of irritation I will hold on to it, out of contempt I will hold on to it, out of insolence I will hold on to it."

The Simile of the Gambler

434. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, two gamblers were playing with dice. One gambler swallowed each losing throw as it came. The second gambler saw that gambler swallowing each losing throw as it came, and having seen, he said this to that gambler - 'You, my dear, are winning absolutely. Give me the dice, my dear, I will make an offering.' 'Yes, my dear,' that gambler gave the dice to that gambler. Then that gambler, having treated the dice with poison, said this to that gambler - 'Come, my dear, let us play with the dice.' 'Yes, my dear,' that gambler assented to that gambler. For the second time those gamblers played with dice. For the second time that gambler swallowed each losing throw as it came. The second gambler saw that gambler swallowing each losing throw as it came for the second time, and having seen, he said this to that gambler -

"Just so, chieftain, methinks you appear like a gambler. Give up this evil wrong view, chieftain; give up this evil wrong view, chieftain. Lest it be for your harm and suffering for a long time."

435. "Although the venerable Kassapa says thus, yet I am not able to give up this evil wrong view. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows me, and kings in other lands too - 'The chieftain Pāyāsi is one who speaks thus, one who holds this view - "Thus there is no other world... etc. result."' If I, friend Kassapa, were to give up this evil wrong view, there would be those who would say of me - 'How foolish is the chieftain Pāyāsi, inexperienced, one who holds to misapprehension.' Out of irritation I will hold on to it, out of contempt I will hold on to it, out of insolence I will hold on to it."

The Simile of the Hemp Carrier

436. "If so, chieftain, I will make a simile for you. By means of a simile some wise men here understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, chieftain, a certain country was abandoned. Then one friend addressed another friend - 'Come, my dear, let us go to that country; perhaps we might obtain some wealth there.' 'Yes, my dear,' that friend assented to that friend. They went to that country, to a certain abandoned village, and there they saw abundant hemp discarded. Having seen it, one friend addressed the other friend - 'This abundant hemp, my dear, has been discarded. If so, my dear, you tie up a load of hemp, and I will tie up a load of hemp; both of us, having taken a load of hemp, will go.' 'Yes, my dear,' that friend, having assented to that friend, having tied up a load of hemp, both of them, having taken a load of hemp, approached a certain abandoned village. There they saw abundant hempen thread discarded. Having seen it, one friend addressed the other friend - 'For whatever purpose, my dear, we would wish for hemp, this abundant hempen thread has been discarded. If so, my dear, you throw away the load of hemp, and I will throw away the load of hemp; both of us, having taken a load of hempen thread, will go.' 'This load of hemp of mine, my dear, has been brought from far and is well tied up; enough for me, you decide for yourself.' Then that friend, having thrown away the load of hemp, took up a load of hempen thread.

They approached a certain abandoned village. There they saw abundant hempen cloths discarded. Having seen them, one friend addressed the other friend - 'For whatever purpose, my dear, we would wish for hemp or hempen thread, these abundant hempen cloths have been discarded. If so, my dear, you throw away the load of hemp, and I will throw away the load of hempen thread; both of us, having taken a load of hempen cloths, will go.' 'This load of hemp of mine, my dear, has been brought from far and is well tied up; enough for me, you decide for yourself.' Then that friend, having thrown away the load of hempen thread, took up a load of hempen cloths.

They approached a certain abandoned village. There they saw abundant linen discarded. Having seen it... etc. abundant linen thread discarded. Having seen it... abundant linen cloth discarded. Having seen it... abundant cotton discarded. Having seen it... abundant cotton thread discarded. Having seen it... abundant cotton cloth discarded. Having seen it... abundant iron discarded. Having seen it... abundant copper discarded. Having seen it... abundant tin discarded. Having seen it... abundant lead discarded. Having seen it... abundant silver discarded. Having seen it... abundant gold discarded. Having seen it, one friend addressed the other friend - 'For whatever purpose, my dear, we would wish for hemp or hempen thread or hempen cloths or linen or linen thread or linen cloth or cotton or cotton thread or cotton cloth or iron or copper or tin or lead or silver, this abundant gold has been discarded. If so, my dear, you throw away the load of hemp, and I will throw away the load of silver; both of us, having taken a load of gold, will go.' 'This load of hemp of mine, my dear, has been brought from far and is well tied up; enough for me, you decide for yourself.' Then that friend, having thrown away the load of silver, took up a load of gold.

They approached their own village. There, that friend who went having taken a load of hemp - his mother and father did not rejoice, his children and wife did not rejoice, his friends and colleagues did not rejoice, and on that account he did not obtain happiness and pleasure. But that friend who went having taken a load of gold - his mother and father rejoiced, his children and wife rejoiced, his friends and colleagues rejoiced, and on that account he obtained happiness and pleasure. Just so, chieftain, methinks you appear like the one with the load of hemp. Give up this evil wrong view, chieftain; give up this evil wrong view, chieftain. Lest it be for your harm and suffering for a long time."

Going for Refuge

437. "I was already delighted and satisfied by the venerable Kassapa's earlier simile. And yet, wishing to hear these various discernments of questions, I thought the venerable Kassapa should be opposed. Excellent, friend Kassapa, excellent, friend Kassapa. Just as, friend Kassapa, one might set upright what had been overturned, or reveal what had been concealed, or point out the path to one who was lost, or hold up an oil lamp in the darkness so that those with eyes might see forms; just so, the Teaching has been made clear by the venerable Kassapa in many ways. I, friend Kassapa, go for refuge to that Master Gotama, to the Teaching, and to the Community of monks. May the venerable Kassapa remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forth for life.

"And I wish, friend Kassapa, to perform a great sacrifice. Let the venerable Kassapa instruct me in what would be for my welfare and happiness for a long time."

Discussion on Sacrifice

438. "In whatever sacrifice, chieftain, cattle are killed or goats and sheep are killed, or chickens and pigs are killed, or various living beings come to slaughter, and the recipients have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration, such a sacrifice, chieftain, is not rich in result, not of great benefit, not of great brightness, not of great pervasion. Just as, chieftain, a farmer, having taken seed and plough, might enter a forest. There he might plant seeds in a bad field, on bad ground, with stumps and thorns not cleared away - seeds that are broken, rotten, damaged by wind and heat, without substance, not well stored. And the rain god would not send down proper showers from time to time. Would those seeds attain growth, increase, and expansion, or would the farmer obtain abundant fruit?" "No indeed, friend Kassapa." "Just so, chieftain, in whatever sacrifice cattle are killed, or goats and sheep are killed, or chickens and pigs are killed, or various living beings come to slaughter, and the recipients have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration, such a sacrifice, chieftain, is not rich in result, not of great benefit, not of great brightness, not of great pervasion.

"And in whatever sacrifice, chieftain, cattle are not killed, goats and sheep are not killed, chickens and pigs are not killed, various living beings do not come to slaughter, and the recipients have right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration, such a sacrifice, chieftain, is rich in result, of great benefit, of great brightness, of great pervasion. Just as, chieftain, a farmer, having taken seed and plough, might enter a forest. There he might plant seeds in a good field, on good ground, with stumps and thorns well cleared away - seeds that are unbroken, not rotten, not damaged by wind and heat, with substance, well stored. And the rain god would send down proper showers from time to time. Would those seeds attain growth, increase, and expansion, or would the farmer obtain abundant fruit?" "Yes, friend Kassapa." "Just so, chieftain, in whatever sacrifice cattle are not killed, goats and sheep are not killed, chickens and pigs are not killed, various living beings do not come to slaughter, and the recipients have right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration, such a sacrifice, chieftain, is rich in result, of great benefit, of great brightness, of great pervasion."

The Story of the Young Man Uttara

439. Then the chieftain Pāyāsi established a gift for ascetics, brahmins, the destitute, travellers, paupers, and beggars. Now in that gift such food was given: porridge of broken rice with vinegar as a second, and coarse garments with ball-like tassels. Now in that gift a young man named Uttara was appointed. He, having given the gift, thus dedicated it - "By this gift may I meet with the chieftain Pāyāsi only in this world, not in the next." The chieftain Pāyāsi heard - "The young man Uttara, it is said, having given the gift, thus dedicates it - 'By this gift may I meet with the chieftain Pāyāsi only in this world, not in the next.'" Then the chieftain Pāyāsi, having had the young man Uttara summoned, said this - "Is it true, dear Uttara, that you, having given the gift, thus dedicate it - 'By this gift may I meet with the chieftain Pāyāsi only in this world, not in the next'?" "Yes, sir." "But why do you, dear Uttara, having given the gift, thus dedicate it - 'By this gift may I meet with the chieftain Pāyāsi only in this world, not in the next'? Are we not, dear Uttara, desirous of merit, expecting the fruit of giving?" "In the venerable one's gift such food is given: porridge of broken rice with vinegar as a second, which the venerable one would not wish to touch even with his foot, let alone eat; and coarse garments with ball-like tassels, which the venerable one would not wish to touch even with his foot, let alone wear. Now the venerable one is dear and agreeable to us; how could we associate what is agreeable with what is disagreeable?" "If so, dear Uttara, establish such food as I eat. And establish such garments as I wear." "Yes, sir," the young man Uttara, having assented to the chieftain Pāyāsi, established such food as the chieftain Pāyāsi eats. And he established such garments as the chieftain Pāyāsi wears.

440. Then the chieftain Pāyāsi, having given the gift inattentively, having given the gift not with his own hand, having given the gift without respect, having given the gift as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in the company of the gods ruled by the four great kings, in an empty mansion called Serīsaka. Now the one who was appointed in that gift was a young man named Uttara. He, having given the gift attentively, having given the gift with his own hand, having given the gift with respect, having given the gift not as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the Thirty-three gods.

Pāyāsi the Young God

441. Now at that time the Venerable Gavampati constantly went to an empty mansion called Serīsaka for the day's abiding. Then the young god Pāyāsi approached the Venerable Gavampati; having approached, he paid respect to the Venerable Gavampati and stood to one side. To the young god Pāyāsi standing to one side, the Venerable Gavampati said this - "Who are you, friend?" "I, venerable sir, am the chieftain Pāyāsi." "Were you not, friend, one who held this view - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions'?" "Truly, venerable sir, I was one who held this view - 'Thus there is no other world, there are no spontaneously reborn beings, there is no result and consequence of good and bad actions.' But I was dissuaded from this evil wrong view by the noble Kumārakassapa." "But the one who was appointed in your gift, friend, a young man named Uttara, where has he been reborn?" "The one who was appointed in my gift, venerable sir, a young man named Uttara, he, having given the gift attentively, having given the gift with his own hand, having given the gift with respect, having given the gift not as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the Thirty-three gods. But I, venerable sir, having given the gift inattentively, having given the gift not with my own hand, having given the gift without respect, having given the gift as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in the company of the gods ruled by the four great kings, in an empty mansion called Serīsaka. If so, Venerable Gavampati, having gone to the human world, announce thus - 'Give gifts attentively, give gifts with your own hand, give gifts with respect, give gifts not as if throwing them away. The chieftain Pāyāsi, having given the gift inattentively, having given the gift not with his own hand, having given the gift without respect, having given the gift as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in the company of the gods ruled by the four great kings, in an empty mansion called Serīsaka. But the one who was appointed in his gift, a young man named Uttara, he, having given the gift attentively, having given the gift with his own hand, having given the gift with respect, having given the gift not as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the Thirty-three gods.'"

Then the Venerable Gavampati, having come to the human world, announced thus - "Give gifts attentively, give gifts with your own hand, give gifts with respect, give gifts not as if throwing them away. The chieftain Pāyāsi, having given the gift inattentively, having given the gift not with his own hand, having given the gift without respect, having given the gift as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in the company of the gods ruled by the four great kings, in an empty mansion called Serīsaka. But the one who was appointed in his gift, a young man named Uttara, he, having given the gift attentively, having given the gift with his own hand, having given the gift with respect, having given the gift not as if throwing it away, upon the body's collapse at death, was reborn in a fortunate realm, in a heavenly world, in the company of the Thirty-three gods."

The Discourse on Pāyāsi is concluded as tenth.

The Great Chapter is concluded.

Its summary:

The Pāḷi of the Great Chapter is concluded.